911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
loftguy
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by loftguy »

chaglang wrote:
KCtoBrooklyn wrote:I don't think this argument was to say that subsidies shouldn't exist at all. The point was that if people are willing to pay market rate for homes and the MAC apartments, then market rate should work for this development.
Gotcha. I thought it was the "Why should they get a subsidy if I didn't get one"? argument.

Does anyone know what "market rate" is for an apartment on Linwood?

Don't get caught up in the market rate argument. Market rate is what will people pay to live in a given location, a given size apartment, a given management company, a given finish of space.

MAC is commanding premium rents ($.90 per sf per month, which is premium for midtown) because of their "package", which includes depth of capital sufficient to allow them to obtain minimal return while building a market.

You can not, should not, expect that anyone else can replicate the model that MAC is following. Not unless KC Life, or DST, or Hallmark Cards decides to focus their bank accounts on growing the community.

Yes, be skeptical, but don't assume obstacle status until you know what is in fact being proposed. You don't have to be their best friend right away, but you should not assume everyone and everything to be a threat. The effort it takes to develop a property, let alone change a neighborhood is too difficult in itself.

I don't know anything specific about the "senior housing" under consideration. But, I do know enough to be skeptical that this is a bad thing for the hood. It's to the neighborhood benefit to establish a cohesive system to readily identify and embrace entities and proposals that are to be a net gain. This should be a natural outcome of the investment MAC is making in the hood. It's very unlikely that this senior housing proposal would have happened sans MAC.

Make sure the opposition arsenal is utilized for something worth opposing.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by FangKC »

KCtoBrooklyn wrote:That was an argument that a couple people made: "I paid market rate for my home, so why can't these apartments be market rate. I didn't get any subsidies"

Well first of all, perhaps you didn't get subsidies for your home, but I sure did. There have been plenty of subsidies available for homeowners: The RAMP program for parts of Hyde Park, (former) first time homebuyer credit, various subsidies for energy efficient purchases/renovations, lead based paint abatement, etc.

Secondly, the economics are completely different for home versus apartment - and your home is not located on Linwood at Harrison.
Any homeowner in the USA that deducts mortgage interest on their taxes gets a federal subsidy, and pays lower taxes as a result of the mortgage deduction. On a really expensive house, the amount of mortgage interest can be fairly significant, so it can reduce the amount of taxable income, and people save hundreds, and even thousands, in taxes.

This is a subsidy in its' own right. It is a long-term tax policy to encourage home ownership, and make it cheaper for people to afford to buy homes.

It is not unlike direct housing subsides for poorer people so they can afford to live in an apartment.

And KCtoBrooklyn is right to point out other energy-efficiency-related subsides that people get to deduct on improvements they make to their homes, which also tend to encrease the value of their homes.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by pash »

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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by kboish »

http://www.frbkc.org/publicat/reswkpap/pdf/rwp11-10.pdf

This is a link to a study completed by our own fed reserve. I don't think their conclusion is a glowing endorsement, but overall they conclude these kinds of developments (almost specifically the one this thread is about) are good for a neighborhood for many different reasons.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by grovester »

pash wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:I don't think anyone is against subsidies for housing.
Sensible people the world over, including a large majority of economists who study the issue, are against housing subsidies, both in the abstract and particularly in the form they've taken in the United States.
I don't think anyone is against this particular type of subsidy in the context of all the housing subsidies that exist today. Sure, in a perfect world all housing subsidies would vanish simultaneously and we wouldn't any longer have the need for them. Subsidies beget more subsidies.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by FangKC »

The reason these subsidies for low income housing exist is because there was not enough affordable housing for poor people. Some of it came out of the 1980s, when homelessness was so prevalent in big cities. Many poor children were living in absolute squalor in privately-owned apartment buildings and houses with no running water, electricity, or in some cases, heating.

The other result was people were building shanty towns under freeways and in parks--tents, cardboard boxes, and other cobbled together structures out of found objects. Many of them being veterans.

It was a different approach instead of the government (HUD) building a lot of housing projects that resulted in islands of the poor huddled together, and high crime rates inside the housing projects themselves. Many of those were torn down.

HUD moved away from building large projects themselves, and started providing subsidies and loan backing to developers to create it. Quality Hill probably wouldn't have been possible without this program.

The free market wasn't solving the problem. Developers weren't building cheaper housing options on their own, and most municipalities had zoning against the only other inexpensive solution--trailers, and manufactured housing.

These housing programs don't always just build inexpensive housing for the urban poor. In my home county, they also built inexpensive senior housing. Many widows of dead farmers would move into these apartments in town, so they were no longer isolated in the country.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by pash »

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grovester
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by grovester »

pash wrote:
grovester wrote:I don't think anyone is against this particular type of subsidy in the context of all the housing subsidies that exist today.
Yes, they are. If you're really interested, this book chapter is a good introduction to the economics of low-income housing subsidies.
My point was that subsidization of housing in general, through tax policy and other means, leads to the need for low income subsidies.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by Pastense »

Sensible people the world over, including a large majority of economists who study the issue, are against housing subsidies, both in the abstract and particularly in the form they've taken in the United States.
Does this include the sensible residents of Hyde Park who take the mortgage interest tax deduction each year? Housing subsidies are ok for the middle & upper income folks but not for the poor?
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

What strikes me a funny about subsidies for senior housing is that as a whole the older generations are more wealthy than the younger ones.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by kcjak »

Aren't they going to change it to 909 or 913 Linwood (a la 909 Walnut) so that the old folks don't associate their building to terror plots?
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by pash »

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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by 72071972 »

People should realize that Linwwod is very different than Armour. The stock of available conversions is next to nothing. It is plagued with gas stations (3), vacant lots, city listed dangerous buildings (2), a boarded up Texas Tom's and and a chiropractor with bars on the windows. Any sort of development should be taken seriously, as long as it follows city and neighborhood guidelines. Are there any such things for Linwood? Seems to be the street that time forgot.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by voltopt »

I am for this development, in any permutation. It is not as if there is a centralized subsidized housing problem on Linwood - there is NOTHING. 75% of the high rise hotels and apartments have been demolished. The only other high rise buildings I can think of, at Tracy and Paseo, are unrenovated and low-income. Where the LaSalle hotel once stood, across the street to the north, is now a gas station. On a boulevard! I'd rather have the LaSalle as a renovated section 8 property any day of the week.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by warwickland »

linwood superfoods .
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KCtoBrooklyn
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

I never heard an update from the HPNA claiming victory, but it was evident that this project was defeated when the building was put back on the market in December.

However, the seller has now accepted another offer for purchase. I have heard no word on the purchaser or the plans.
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by chaglang »

The developer got a resounding thumbs up from Squier Park to redevelop the long-vacant Faxon School with senior housing. Given the uncertain state of the Missouri tax credit programs, it's a coin flip as to whether it will ever happen.
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Re: 911 Linwood

Post by DaveKCMO »

toured this building today. it will now be 95 market rate apartments instead of senior housing. apparently it was built so well that even two decades of decay has had no impact on the basic structure.

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grovester
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by grovester »

I thought the $1/sf rents sounded surprisingly modest, even with tax credits. Nice to see that this kind of rehab can happen with those numbers. Is that similar to MAC properties?
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Re: 911 Linwood Redevelopment as Senior Housing

Post by chrizow »

i think this will be a pretty interesting test of market-rate residential development in midtown. armour has come a long way, mostly due to MAC, but even at the inception of its rebirth, it was not hard to see that Armour is a very handsome street, and immediately adjacent to some pretty high-end single-family residential housing. by contrast, linwood is far less appealing of a street, and this building is more of an island.
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