Westside happenings

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12220
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Westside happenings

Postby FangKC » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:54 pm

EPC withdraws embattled West Side mixed-use project

EPC Real Estate Group LLC’s $18 million mixed-use project on Kansas City’s West Side has been withdrawn after a series of concessions that failed to stem neighborhood opposition and delays.

But a firm spokesman said it will be back in a few weeks with a smaller, residential-only plan for the corner of 17th Street and Madison Avenue. It should encounter smoother sailing because it won’t require rezoning or public incentives, he said.

...

Now, with less planned density and without support from incentives, “we just can’t incorporate the cost of the items" that will be scratched, Bradley said. He said EPC is working on a new plan that would place 32 apartments, four townhomes and surface parking on the site.

...


http://tinyurl.com/hdlctsj

ThorsteinVeblen
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:15 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby ThorsteinVeblen » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:30 am

So did the residents on the South End just want nothing at all? The project seemed reasonable and an underground garage would've helped to alleviate parking problems, at least in theory. However, even on weekends I've never had an issue finding on the street parking. IDK, Westside has so much potential to be a good mixed density area but neighborhood not necessarily for it. Is gentrification the larger issue for a lot of residents there? I've read the prior posts but I think at least one poster here lives in the Westside.

User avatar
rxlexi
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:30 pm
Location: Columbia MO

Re: Westside happenings

Postby rxlexi » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:09 am

Downsized again, surface parking, no retail for the EPC West Side project? Wow. Sad. What started as a very promising and well reasoned addition to one of KC's few vibrant, mixed-use urban neighborhoods ends up as a handful of apartments, if it happens at all.

This is embarrassing for the West Side particularly, and the city as a whole, to the extent that we seem to have real issues with mixed-use neighborhoods (i.e. being a "real" city).

User avatar
chaglang
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3109
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby chaglang » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:35 pm

This was more complicated than people just rejecting density or mixed use. KC really only recognizes arguments about density/parking as valid to opposing a project like this. So any opposition to it - aesthetic, whatever - gets funneled through that. And if the building goes in as apartments only, NBD. There's a ton of retail within a block of that site.

bobbyhawks
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3735
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:19 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby bobbyhawks » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:11 pm

chaglang wrote:This was more complicated than people just rejecting density or mixed use. KC really only recognizes arguments about density/parking as valid to opposing a project like this. So any opposition to it - aesthetic, whatever - gets funneled through that. And if the building goes in as apartments only, NBD. There's a ton of retail within a block of that site.

Well stated. My understanding of the timeline from a resident perspective is the following (some of it may be a bit out of order, but it is close-ish):

1. EPC quietly buys the land and proceeds to refuse maintenance on the landscape and sidewalks. The warehouse is still not really a major eyesore and wouldn't be considered "blight" in most communities.
2. EPC does almost no outreach, and comes up with an initial plan for the area that is very suburban looking and out of touch with any urban sensibility (in my opinion), includes a restaurant with a rooftop bar (next door to multiple homes with young kids), more units than are currently allowed by the zoning regulations, and a parking plan that ran through alleys adjoining back yards of houses and also required a tax abatement.
3. The nearby neighbors initially take issue with the size of the development since it will require a zoning exception, the design elements that include a rooftop bar area, and the parking design. It is important to note that most of the residents on both Madison and Belleview park on the street currently, and few houses have driveways. Another sticking point is why the development requires or would qualify for a tax abatement considering the attractiveness of the land for development. It was clear that the overall plan was crafted in a way that it could not be completed without the abatement (or free money added to the budget) by the city (this was also stated by EPC). Why EPC was so sure they would get an abatement for an underground parking structure, I am not sure, but the entire plan hinged on that happening based on their statements.
4. EPC does finally reach out to the neighbors and is immediately dismissive of their concerns. Multiple neighbors have stated that EPC were bordering on rude in their first interactions, and that this, more than anything else, was why they did not trust EPC in subsequent plan revisions. Neighbors suspect that EPC would like to make the office space associated with this location their new "urban" headquarters since they do not have much of an urban track record. Neighbors note that the area is not really "blighted" as EPC claims.
5. Facing the potential for a mounting opposition, EPC revises the plan to a much better looking structure (in my opinion), removes the rooftop bar and restaurant from the plan, and reduces the number of units (to a number that is still 50% above the current zoning allowance). This appeased many of the immediate neighbors, but most still had a problem with why the plan required a tax abatement and with EPC's track record interacting with the community. Somewhere in the mix, a notarized petition of neighbors in the immediate vicinity is created to oppose the zoning amendment that would allow for the project to move forward. The zoning issue was far from the sole reason why most were in opposition, but it was the only tool available to prevent the overall plan from moving forward as is.
6. By this time, the rest of the neighborhood (Westside South and other parts of the North) had been made aware of and was being mobilized to voice concern of the general influx of higher-end units to the area and its potential impact on property taxes. The Switzer/West High apartment construction and announced pricing were used to warn residents of the type of project that could be the new normal. A separate petition is created that includes people who do not live very close to the development at all and is mostly concerned with the potential impact to property taxes.
7. The vote on the zoning amendment is delayed multiple times, and EPC continues to neglect the property, such that the overgrown landscaping and sidewalks do finally make the property look run down.
8. EPC threatens to buy adjoining land and complete the project at a reduced size with surface parking on the adjoining land if they do not get the tax abatement.
9. EPC rescinds its request for a zoning amendment and tax abatement (without it ever coming to a vote) and will move forward with the project at a zoning appropriate size and with surface parking (no word on if they will buy nearby land to do this). Multiple neighbors who have been the strongest opposition have stated that they would have been fine with a slightly larger project (sans the tax abatement) had EPC interacted well with the community from the start. I wasn't around for those interactions, so I'm only taking the word of those people who I do not think are likely to overreact or NIMBY everything. It kinda sounds like EPC was not telling the truth about the tax abatement, and it was going to be used to fund a much larger percentage of the project than just the underground parking. Underground parking could not have housed a substantial number of vehicles anyhow.

User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12220
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Westside happenings

Postby FangKC » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:20 am

bobbyhawks, can you distill the difference in support for the project form the North End of the neighborhood, which is reported to have been supportive, and the South End, which supposedly represented the opposition?

bobbyhawks
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3735
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:19 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby bobbyhawks » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:36 am

FangKC wrote:bobbyhawks, can you distill the difference in support for the project form the North End of the neighborhood, which is reported to have been supportive, and the South End, which supposedly represented the opposition?

I think the claims that the North supports the plan are a huge stretch of the truth. Perhaps they are referring to general satisfaction with some of the changes that had been made to the plan, but I have not spoken with anyone in the few blocks surrounding the development that supported it with both tax incentives and a zoning amendment requirement. EPC submitted a map of people in support of the plan that seemed to directly contradict the petition signatures, but I didn't spend a lot of time investigating. The "against-re-zoning" petition of mostly people in the Westside North that was notarized seemed like an overwhelming percentage of the neighborhood. There was a separate petition of mostly those in the Westside South (not sure if notarized) that I think was collected as a different initiative.

Disclaimer: My understanding of the situation is more "game of telephone" than I would like it to be. I live in the neighborhood but have been out of town during a lot of the events that took place. I am mostly going on what neighbors have relayed to me since the articles barely dip into the well on the issue. I did briefly look at some of the information posted to the KCMO website regarding a hearing and info gathered by EPC and opponents, but it is possible I misunderstood something. I do, however, have insight into the mindset of the neighbors. If you want to way oversimplify it into a racial and socio-economic issue, you could say that the "newer," more affluent residents (15-20 years and under) were against the zoning amendment and tax incentives because they did not think they were necessary and did not like the way EPC interacted with the community. Longer-term residents (whose families have lived in the hood for 25 to 75+ years) were promoting the threat of increased property taxes and gentrification and were also put off by EPC's initial outreach to the Westside community.

Had this been a different developer with more of an urban track record and better outreach skills, I think the opposition would have been mainly from the old guard. It is likely that every project in the foreseeable future will see immediate skepticism from longtime residents with regard to the impact on property taxes and the cultural identity of the neighborhood. This is no different than any other old urban neighborhood in the country where renewed interest and gentrification are a threat. I still don't think the area is in a very mature state of being gentrified, but I can understand why people are skeptical. There are still a lot of empty residential lots, and land speculators are still sitting on land they have owned for many years. The real gentrification will be signaled by longtime residents being offered so much money to leave, they cannot refuse (currently, some in the North are offered money, but nothing crazy - mostly just advantageous vultures). That will probably be tied to a desire to convert the low-income row homes along W. Pennway to market rate apartments and the building of an organic food mart. People will also be buying houses just so they can knock them down, which hasn't happened yet to my knowledge. There are still secret niches of the Westside that are sure to explode in value once people realize they exist.

User avatar
chaglang
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3109
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby chaglang » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:36 pm

Excellent synopsis, thanks for writing this.

bobbyhawks
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3735
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:19 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby bobbyhawks » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:42 pm

The former Little Freshie space has now reopened as Goat Hill Coffee & Soda (super quick turnaround - no huge changes). The opening weekend hours look great as they will now open at 6:30 AM Monday through Saturday and by 8:00 AM on Sunday. I'll be happy if they try to keep the same vibe going, but the earlier hours and being open every day will be a welcome change.

http://www.goathillkc.com/

They have pictures of "Post Coffee" on the website, and from Post's Facebook, it sounds like this will be an exclusive relationship (essentially this is a Post offshoot). Never had Post, but I'm looking forward to checking them out.

bobbyhawks
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3735
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:19 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby bobbyhawks » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:29 am

So far, Goat Hill Coffee & Soda has had a great steady stream of patrons. It is much more oriented toward people coming in and hanging out, even with the space limitations. Opening up the "bar" area really has invited people to stick around rather than use it as a to go only location. The coffee is very solid as well, which certainly helps. With the increased hours and days open, it is a great transition from what was already a great place in Little Freshie.

As for the 17th and Madison apartment development, the latest update I heard from my neighbors is that the developer is going to move ahead and is planning to have subsurface parking, even without the tax abatement. If true, it would add to the narrative that the 25 years of requested tax abatement was mostly a free money grab and that EPC was disingenuous when they said they couldn't have subsurface parking without it. Since they have decided to build to the existing zoning, they are no longer seeking feedback from neighbors (to my knowledge).

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6016
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Westside happenings

Postby flyingember » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:15 pm

bobbyhawks wrote:Since they have decided to build to the existing zoning, they are no longer seeking feedback from neighbors (to my knowledge).

This is why I keep coming back to zoning being the #1 item that neighborhoods need to cover. We wouldn't end up with a Westport QT issue if the area plan had come with exact matching zoning changes (not our current high density allows gas stations zoning). Change it so that where zoning confirms to an accepted area plan it takes 9 votes (supermajority) to change the zoning for the area, unless it's to implement a new area plan zoning and then it's 6.

We fight over too many little development things over and over when it would be much easier to get a whole area changed and make developers go through hoops to do something different than the community wants but at the same time it tells them they won't get a fight if they try to build what zoning allows them to build.

User avatar
rxlexi
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:30 pm
Location: Columbia MO

Re: Westside happenings

Postby rxlexi » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:41 am

We fight over too many little development things over and over when it would be much easier to get a whole area changed and make developers go through hoops to do something different than the community wants but at the same time it tells them they won't get a fight if they try to build what zoning allows them to build.


This is an excellent point.

User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12220
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Westside happenings

Postby FangKC » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:14 pm

Dedication ceremony to kick off a unique restoration for one of Kansas City’s oldest homes

http://fox4kc.com/2017/02/09/dedication-ceremony-to-kick-off-a-unique-restoration-for-one-of-kansas-citys-oldest-homes/

User avatar
grovester
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3489
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: KC Metro

Re: Westside happenings

Postby grovester » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm shocked that it's 5300 sf.

User avatar
Highlander
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8839
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Westside happenings

Postby Highlander » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:06 pm

FangKC wrote:Dedication ceremony to kick off a unique restoration for one of Kansas City’s oldest homes

http://fox4kc.com/2017/02/09/dedication-ceremony-to-kick-off-a-unique-restoration-for-one-of-kansas-citys-oldest-homes/


House had an interesting story. The west side was apparently really downtrodden back in the 60's - as was the crossroads area for that matter. I too had a hard time seeing how that house is 5300 sq ft.

bobbyhawks
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3735
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:19 pm

Re: Westside happenings

Postby bobbyhawks » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:21 pm

1720 Jefferson Street is currently listed for $1.1 million, just a few houses away. It is 6 bed, 3 full bath, 1 half, but they left the square feet blank on this one.

I've been to an estate sale at the JC Peppard House, and it is definitely quite big. There is an unfinished basement, which I'm sure doesn't count for square footage, but there are three full finished stories above. It needs every bit of that half million invested back in, but it could be quite stunning once updated. The nextdoor neighbors have been working on their place for a while, and that entire side of the street will be pretty amazing after all are completed.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6016
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Westside happenings

Postby flyingember » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:10 pm

At current rates, 1720 Jefferson is a big double lot, worth about $300k.
So the home is priced at $800k

After looking at the photos, if it's in good condition without major structural work, that's extremely well priced and worth every penny.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3744
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Westside happenings

Postby beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:15 pm

^ Not a chance. It's a nice house top to bottom but WAY overpriced.

User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12220
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Westside happenings

Postby FangKC » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:46 pm

It's overpriced for that part of KCMO. I was just looking online at similar-sized vintage houses in suburban New Jersey yesterday for around that price, and they are in the New York City commuter market. You could get that price in certain neighborhoods south of the Plaza, but not there.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/322-Hartford-Rd_South-Orange_NJ_07079_M63648-86366

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/441-Overhill-Rd_South-Orange_NJ_07079_M53120-98636?ex=NJ624545930

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/251-Montrose-Ave_South-Orange_NJ_07079_M51616-18760

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6016
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Westside happenings

Postby flyingember » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:33 pm

They're not the only house at that price point in that neighborhood. It's weirdly patchwork on pricing. And I can say from experience that right now for 6 bedrooms that $600k+ isn't unrealistic in any part of town.


Return to “Urban Core”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests