Troost developments

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
KCKev2
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Re: Troost developments

Post by KCKev2 »

The discussion that development along the Troost corridor is a take away from the pie is ridiculous. Development of vacant buildings and land contribute to the pie that we can all eat from.
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chaglang
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Re: Troost developments

Post by chaglang »

I thought the article was pretty evenhanded. The editorial this morning about the Denverization of Troost was absurd.

It's interesting that this is being written as a Troost problem because that's where low income and minority residents have lived for years. And while I believe that the city has a responsibility to ensure there is a place for those residents on Troost (and I'm quoted in the article saying as much), this is also a Brookside problem and a north of the river problem. When the placement of subsidized housing limits where low-income people can live to the areas where they currently live, we help perpetuate the segregation patterns that everyone claims to hate. Yes, longtime residents should be able to remain on Troost and enjoy the redevelopment but if they want to live somewhere else for a change they should be able to do that too, just like anyone else.

It's great that mayoral candidates have latched onto this as an issue. If they are truly concerned about this beyond the 2019 election, the next thing they need to tackle is job sprawl and the incentivization of jobs that are difficult to reach without a car. Transportation costs eat up money that a person could put toward housing, so job sprawl essentially works to undo affordable housing. Aligning those is going to be challenging given our "divide by six" mentality.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Troost developments

Post by beautyfromashes »

chaglang wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:06 am It's great that mayoral candidates have latched onto this as an issue. If they are truly concerned about this beyond the 2019 election, the next thing they need to tackle is job sprawl and the incentivization of jobs that are difficult to reach without a car. Transportation costs eat up money that a person could put toward housing, so job sprawl essentially works to undo affordable housing. Aligning those is going to be challenging given our "divide by six" mentality.
Couldn’t agree more with your entire post. I just haven’t heard any mayoral (or council) candidate talk about how they are going to attract businesses to the core. I get that we need transportation to suburban jobs, but we need better paying jobs here.

I also liked the article in the Star about utility costs. The same people who are advocating for affordable housing keep raising sales and property taxes every chance they get and utility costs have skyrocketed. That hurts the poor disproportionately.
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rxlexi
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Re: Troost developments

Post by rxlexi »

For the record, below is the Star editorial.

LOL - it is silly. Bizarre and scary to me that this kind of sentiment is gaining traction in our low-cost, slow-growth midwestern city. A city without a single economic driver powerful enough to incite real gentrification.

Our glittering downtown can't attract one single project's worth of new construction condo financing, attracts zero major national retail or new (even local) corporate HQ presence, has as many parking lots as buildings on our "Grand" boulevard, and will likely never put up a building taller than a 40-story 80's office tower.

And this, in the very heart of the subsidized, "Denverized" development radius that is so callously destroying our community. To say nothing of the rest of the urban core.

But look out ya'll, we're dangerously on the verge of becoming a San Franciso-esque, coastal-elite enclave of the ultra-rich and the homeless!

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edit ... 02495.html
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Re: Troost developments

Post by smh »

rxlexi wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:30 pm For the record, below is the Star editorial.

LOL - it is silly. Bizarre and scary to me that this kind of sentiment is gaining traction in our low-cost, slow-growth midwestern city. A city without a single economic driver powerful enough to incite real gentrification.

Our glittering downtown can't attract one single project's worth of new construction condo financing, attracts zero major national retail or new (even local) corporate HQ presence, has as many parking lots as buildings on our "Grand" boulevard, and will likely never put up a building taller than a 40-story 80's office tower.

And this, in the very heart of the subsidized, "Denverized" development radius that is so callously destroying our community. To say nothing of the rest of the urban core.

But look out ya'll, we're dangerously on the verge of becoming a San Franciso-esque, coastal-elite enclave of the ultra-rich and the homeless!

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edit ... 02495.html
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Troost developments

Post by beautyfromashes »

That article was complete trash. Unfortunately, many people believe the misguided sentiment. We need to be careful with our next representatives. There’s growing thoughts that could derail what DT and the rest of KC is becoming.
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Highlander
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Re: Troost developments

Post by Highlander »

rxlexi wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:30 pm For the record, below is the Star editorial.

LOL - it is silly. Bizarre and scary to me that this kind of sentiment is gaining traction in our low-cost, slow-growth midwestern city. A city without a single economic driver powerful enough to incite real gentrification.

Our glittering downtown can't attract one single project's worth of new construction condo financing, attracts zero major national retail or new (even local) corporate HQ presence, has as many parking lots as buildings on our "Grand" boulevard, and will likely never put up a building taller than a 40-story 80's office tower.

And this, in the very heart of the subsidized, "Denverized" development radius that is so callously destroying our community. To say nothing of the rest of the urban core.

But look out ya'll, we're dangerously on the verge of becoming a San Franciso-esque, coastal-elite enclave of the ultra-rich and the homeless!

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edit ... 02495.html
The article is absurd. It's what I've come to expect from the Star. People who really think like that should go to Denver sometime and check it out. Nearly every block in the city of Denver is gentrified. It's been a pretty comprehensive process. Unforunately, KC lacks the catalyst to undergo widespread gentrification. KC is not even close to undergoing that kind of gentrification in fact, gentrification has had a very tough time getting off the ground here and the angst caused by a few proposed apartments along Troost suggest that the process will continue to struggle. I don't understand the opposition to gentrification in KC. The middle class essentially left KC south of the river during the 60's through 80's save for an enclave from Brookside to the Plaza and west of Holmes in far south KC. The areas they lived were occupied by people with lower incomes. So, what is KC suppose to do now? Remain a poor community for eternity? Gentrification may set a few folks back (but even that is overplayed because the increased value of their property partially/fully offsets the property tax issues) but it will benefit many more by raising the city's tax base.
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Re: Troost developments

Post by flyingember »

Highlander wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:48 am I don't understand the opposition to gentrification in KC. The middle class essentially left KC south of the river during the 60's through 80's save for an enclave from Brookside to the Plaza and west of Holmes in far south KC. The areas they lived were occupied by people with lower incomes. So, what is KC suppose to do now? Remain a poor community for eternity? Gentrification may set a few folks back (but even that is overplayed because the increased value of their property partially/fully offsets the property tax issues) but it will benefit many more by raising the city's tax base.
People don't want someone to come in and renovate and raise rents near the bus system's fastest and closest routes. Affordable + not a pain to get to work by bus is a good thing to many.

The problem is this introduces a bad cycle. People move into a building because it's cheap, and to stay cheap it will be poorly maintained somewhere. The lack of investment results in either a tear down or a single expensive renovation (vs. regular upgrades) that raises prices.

The solution is what most people wouldn't think. It's to approve everything so not all developers can build high end units and lease them and if they do, the glut pushes prices down.

What's needed is to rethink zoning. If you're on a block like 33rd and Agnes you probably shouldn't see an apartment building replacing two single family home lots. But you should expect three smaller homes to be built there. At the same time there should be a minimum density for any new building along Prospect a few blocks away.

We need to also think about removing any mandate that makes things cost more by wasting land. Revoke parking minimums. Revoke minimum setbacks. Revoke minimum lot to building ratios.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Troost developments

Post by beautyfromashes »

^ Yes! Cut the red tape. I wish we could partner with local architecture firms or universities to develop a city spec home. Modern, size/lot consious, energy efficient. Make it an automatic approval if used, a literal one day approval.
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chaglang
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Re: Troost developments

Post by chaglang »

Portland did this. They had a bunch of house plans that had already been thru city approval. The builder paid a small fee and proceeded with construction.

Parking is a huge factor when considering project construction costs and affordability. Adding unnecessary parking is a great way to decrease affordability. This is not widely understood in KC.
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Re: Troost developments

Post by TrolliKC »

beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:24 pm That article was complete trash. Unfortunately, many people believe the misguided sentiment. We need to be careful with our next representatives. There’s growing thoughts that could derail what DT and the rest of KC is becoming.
We also need to be careful of our next newspaper. KcStar is a bankrupt failing paper, that has laid off all who made it worthwhile.
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Re: Troost developments

Post by anonkcmo »

Whites refuse to buy/live and greedy developers and banks refuse to invest east of Troost =
RACIST BASTARDS!!!

Whites start to buy/live and risk-taking developers & banks begin to invest east of Troost =
GENTRIFICATION & CAPITALIST F***KS!!!!

Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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alejandro46
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Re: Troost developments

Post by alejandro46 »

"Longtime Residents Worry Roommate With Well-Paid Job Slowly Gentrifying Apartment"

https://local.theonion.com/longtime-res ... hC_tC4r2rc
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TheLastGentleman
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Re: Troost developments

Post by TheLastGentleman »

anonkcmo wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:11 pmLiberalism is a mental disorder.
Or maybe reality is actually too complicated to be made sense of without some nuance, and can lead people to a number of different conclusions based on incomplete perspectives?



No? The left is a diseased hivemind? Ok.
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Re: Troost developments

Post by Riverite »

How did they figure out that we are not a coalition of a bunch of different positions, but a alien species from outer space?

Praise Zorg
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Re: Troost developments

Post by marieantoinette »

This is Delmarhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Delma ... 90.2590611

Delmar is the dividing line in STL https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 538708fafd

Delmar is also a very productive and vibrant place in some areas such as “the Loop”. Yep, people get mugged sometimes. It doesn’t stop them from going there.https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6560748 ... 312!8i6656

The Loop has always been cool, and its taken my entire lifetime for really infill to take shape. They even have a streetcar now, COOL. Look at this crazy new building! Where do they come up with this stuff? https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6556678 ... 312!8i6656

Here’s what existed there back in 2007. It was cool back then too. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6556811 ... 328!8i1664

If you change the years in street view, you’ll notice that STL’s Delmar is the result of incremental development.

BUT HAS IT BEEN DENVERIZED?

Wonderfully enough, STL seems to be pretty honest in their weaknesses. http://cityobservatory.org/is-st-louis-gentrifying/

But we’ve always had Chicago to make us feel inferior.

• “Recent research has provided evidence for the legend that Eskimos have more than fifty words for snow. Unfortunately, we seem to have only one word for economically improving neighborhoods: gentrification. Our profound lack of linguistic nuance is crippling our ability to talk about what kind of future we want to see for urban neighborhoods.”

• “Gentrification is almost completely absent north of Delmar. “Gentrification-like processes” are concentrated on neighborhoods in and just south of the Central Corridor that have always done relatively well.”

• In effect, “gentrification” has become the “g-word”–a kind of default term to express people’s anxieties about powerlessness and widening economic and spatial inequalities. Affordable housing is an issue in St. Louis, but the cause is not so much gentrification as stagnating wages and a private rental market that is not capable of providing decent housing for those at the bottom of the income scale. This is true everywhere – not just in St. Louis.”

Hey, the Delmar Loop is pretty cool. It must be really expensive to live there, even on the north side…

Wrong. https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/g ... ect/14_zm/

I realize Kansas City is the city that everyone in Kansas City is talking about, but we need to be more realistic about what our city is and can become. Our inability to gentrify many neighborhoods might as well be a strength, allowing us to build incrementally and hopefully institute incremental social changes.

I’ll repeat the mantra: Recent research has provided evidence for the legend that Eskimos have more than fifty words for snow. Unfortunately, we seem to have only one word for economically improving neighborhoods: gentrification.
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Re: Troost developments

Post by town cow »

The Denverization editorial was indeed ridonkulous. Did this editorial from The Denver Post get posted?:

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/12/05/d ... nsas-city/
KCKev2
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Re: Troost developments

Post by KCKev2 »

Thanks for the link to the Denver Post editorial.

First, they make the mistake of repeating the Kansas City Star data-less assertion that Kansas City is experiencing an affordable housing "crisis."

But, more importantly, they quote the editorial writer as saying, “I used that term because it’s one people on the East Side here actually use; I first heard it maybe six months ago at a community meeting at a library there,” she said in an email. “They call it ‘Denverization’ because so many of those priced out in your town are moving to ours, where they are in turn pushing others out.” - LMAO. Yes, that's the way to roll - one anecdote as the basis for advocating housing policies.
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chaglang
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Re: Troost developments

Post by chaglang »

It’s amazing how the Star managed to bury a pretty well written article by Bill Turque under this crazy editorial which then grabbed all the publicity.

Relatedly, Kevin Collison ran a guest column from John Hoffman about how Troost developers deserve praise for building on Troost. John has done some good work here but statements like that don’t help move this conversation in a productive direction.
KCKev2
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Re: Troost developments

Post by KCKev2 »

Developing vacant land and vacant buildings into housing and commercial space which can offer services is a neighborhood benefit.
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