NE Side

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
ignatius
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NE Side

Post by ignatius » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:46 pm

NE Side/Old NE is one of my favorite hoods in KC.  It's the most diverse area in the City and has awesome (in the true sense of the word) architecture. Cliff Drive along the large park is a great adventure - I hit it often through the summer.  There is a range of Asians to Latinos to Arabs to Bosnians to Africans (and apparently a lot of Sudanese) to non-VWPs (Very White People).  Reminds me of Echo Park in LA - in terms of diversity, not architecture or depth.  It's a smashup of Echo Park and Queens.

Found this that says KC has the second largest Sudanese population in US.  Many are apparently in NE Side.
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kcur/ ... sting.Vote

Seems like NE was heading in the right direction in the early 2Ks but some friends of a friend who live there say it's back to having issues - the crime is rising back and thugs and hookers are active on Indy Ave.  Though crime has been rising in many KC _metro_ hoods since the economy tanked.  I wondered if the hoods that are improving the most are the ones that have immigrants - they thought so.  What do NE Siders think... helping or creating a clash.

Immigrants seemed to turn around Central Ave in KCK.  

Pics...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163769
Last edited by ignatius on Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NE Side

Post by FangKC » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:02 pm

There are a lot of Sudanese in the Old NE, especially in Pendleton Heights around Maple Park.  I see them out walking around all the time.  The demand for goat meat has increased since their arrival, and there was/is a sign on one of the local markets in the area for fresh goat meat.

It is a very diverse neighborhood.  I have noticed that the Mexican immigrants have been buying and renovating old houses all over the Old NE.  

The Old Northeast also has a lot of the remaining Victorian architecture in the city.  Some of the most beautiful and unique homes in the city are in this area.  Some of the most beautiful and striking interiors exist in some of these homes.

A couple of young Vietnamese men bought and renovated a house on my block.

There is also a population of Russian immigrants living in this area, and for awhile they had their own newspaper.

There are nodes of crime in the Old NE, but it is improving over time.  There is still a constant battle to deal with gang graffiti, but people are trying to keep up with it.  I see fewer street hookers now than I used to see on Indy Avenue.

Westside Housing Association has begun working in the Old NE neighborhoods, so hopefully we will see more homes improved and new ones built.

One of the things I would like to see is for neighborhood associations to be more proactive in infill development.  For example, I wish Pendleton Heights would come up with an infill plan for vacant lots, and provide developers and builders a style-book of preferred house styles for new infill houses.  Since it's a historic district, I think it's important to do this in advance. Other cities have done this.

Many of the blocks in PH have stabilized, and been improved to the point that I think it's time to work on infilling vacant lots among them.

One of the unfortunate things that has occurred in the past is building ranch houses next to Victorians, and it creates a mish-mash of homes that are incongruent with the block.

Image

One of the things I wish could be improved in the Old NE is replacing or reducing the number of old chain link fences around homes, and fixing or replacing old rock and painted cinder block retaining walls.  I think they reduce the aesthetics of blocks and neighborhoods.

Image

Image
Last edited by FangKC on Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NE Side

Post by Halt_I_Am_Reptar » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:52 am

I like how the Westside has defined itself as an area of historical importance, but also showcases a great deal of chic modern homes with clean lines. It would be nice if PH could lean more towards a historic district with new construction focusing on period architecture with modern amenities. I think KC lacks this and it would be a great niche market for home buyers. It seems the negative image and lack of commercial development continue to keep people away but I've definitely seen an improvement in older areas of KC such as PH, even in the short 3 years that I've been in KC.

A lot of the ranch homes could be rehabbed into Victorian bungalows with ease, but unfortunately they are already at a price point that wouldn't allow for the costly renovations. Tax incentives might help perhaps? It would be really nice to see historically accurate, or close to, new Victorian construction that display very clean lined European style kitchens and bathrooms over the dowdy and heavy stereotypical raised panel cabinets with rubbed bronze.

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Re: NE Side

Post by mean » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:53 am

ignatius wrote:What do NE Siders think... helping or creating a clash.
Helping in general, but we need to do what we can to ensure that these populations are gradually integrated. Having a "little Sudan" or "little Vietnam" or "little Somalia" is fine, in fact it's great, but imo it stops being great if their kids and grandkids don't integrate into American society, and stay isolated and segregated in their own ethnic enclaves.
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Re: NE Side

Post by ComandanteCero » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:32 pm

i wouldn't worry about that.  It's incredibly difficult for subsequent generations to not integrate to some extent or another.

The only places where you get isolated and segregated populations are due to abnormal conditions (i.e the general population is purposefully isolating a given group, or physical isolation, or the group itself is seeking isolation due to religious or cultural reasons (i.e Amish, Hassidic Jews, etc.)).  And even for them, they will be more "American" than not.
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Re: NE Side

Post by mean » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:18 pm

ComandanteCero wrote:The only places where you get isolated and segregated populations are due to abnormal conditions (i.e the general population is purposefully isolating a given group, or physical isolation, or the group itself is seeking isolation due to religious or cultural reasons (i.e Amish, Hassidic Jews, etc.)).  And even for them, they will be more "American" than not.
That's exactly what I'm talking about, particularly with some of the more conservative Islamic populations. It isn't something I think is likely to be a huge problem or anything, but probably something to watch.
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Re: NE Side

Post by FangKC » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:53 pm

I was talking yesterday with a Muslim guy born in Bosnia, who lives here in Kansas City. His family immigrated when he was a small child during the war in Bosnia.  I wouldn't worry too much about him sticking with the conservative Islamic tradition. He came out of the closet as gay when he was 13-years-old.
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Re: NE Side

Post by warwickland » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:27 pm

FangKC wrote: I was talking yesterday with a Muslim guy born in Bosnia, who lives here in Kansas City. His family immigrated when he was a small child during the war in Bosnia.  I wouldn't worry too much about him sticking with the conservative Islamic tradition. He came out of the closet as gay when he was 13-years-old.
The muslim Bosnians/Albanians that I know in the midwest arent really ultra conservative and integrate very easily and their children of course usually speak perfect english and you wouldnt know they grew up in an immigrant household at all. It's got to be one of the smoothest immigration waves into the midwest ever. More please!
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Re: NE Side

Post by mean » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:40 am

Nice anecdotes. Make sure to call the European countries where failure / refusal to integrate has been problematic, and tell them they're just doing it wrong.
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Re: NE Side

Post by ContainsHotLiquid » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:14 am

mean wrote: Nice anecdotes. Make sure to call the European countries where failure / refusal to integrate has been problematic, and tell them they're just doing it wrong.
You're confusing different things here. European and US immigrant communities aren't really analogous. The so-called integration problems in many European countries stem from a longstanding outright hostility to immigrants, particularly in France and Italy, that dates back hundreds and hundreds of years, the modern iteration of which can be defined primarily by enforced economic exclusion and geographic isolation. So even Muslim Parisians who would like to be thought of as Frenchmen and native citizens are forbidden from living outside of the NE suburbs, are denied jobs, and are segregated de jour from the rest of Paris. Not unlike a lot of African Americans in US cities, historically.

Furthermore, your definition of what it is to be American is, I think, pretty limited. We might define America as a collection of autonomous groups participating together in a social experiment, rather than a homogenous mass of a single culture. There is already a great pressure among first and second-generation immigrant groups to abandon their traditions in order to adopt what they perceive to be an American way of life (even if that perception is misinformed). Few Americans are as enthusiastic about America as its immigrants.
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Re: NE Side

Post by chrizow » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:17 am

well, MO has banned Sharia law - we are well on our way to integrating those pesky ay-rabs!  http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2011/04/mis ... ia_law.php

maybe the niqab will be next...

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Re: NE Side

Post by chingon » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:37 am

Not to get too far off topic but the bill passed the house, not the full congress and it hasn't been signed, so nothing has really been banned.

 

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Re: NE Side

Post by chrizow » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:39 am

i'll be got-damned if missoura becomes a muslim state!

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Re: NE Side

Post by mean » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:41 am

Sorry I expressed a vaguely non-liberal integration concern.
ContainsHotLiquid wrote:You're confusing different things here. European and US immigrant communities aren't really analogous. The so-called integration problems in many European countries stem from a longstanding outright hostility to immigrants, particularly in France and Italy, that dates back hundreds and hundreds of years, the modern iteration of which can be defined primarily by enforced economic exclusion and geographic isolation.
So what you're saying is, they're doing it wrong...
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Re: NE Side

Post by chingon » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:50 am

Europe is never wrong, you ugly American lout! Don't you understand people are thinner there.

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Re: NE Side

Post by ContainsHotLiquid » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:30 am

What I'm saying is, the sense of European nationhood has been built on an idea of homogeneity, an idea that a clear and uniform culture must be established to distinguish the nation from its neighbors. It is a crucial idea of sovereignty that simply does not exist in America - and it has led to problems in those modern states not only with immigrant communities, but with marginalized communities within the nations (the Basques, the Bretons).

By contrast, one of the great (if perpetually frustrated) ideals of America is that our sense of nationhood can be derived from many disparate communities. In my opinion, this ideal is something to which the nation can continually aspire; certainly many immigrants believe in it enough to come here and work to achieve it.

This is why I am personally so repelled when people insist that the immigrant communities in America need to conform to some other perception of America, as if somehow this other America were more real and true than the America to which the immigrants contribute. I must argue that what immigrants bring to America becomes American simply by virtue of their being here.

I am disgusted when people like Pat Buchanan and Sarah Palin invoke the idea of a "real American," as if anyone here was more American than anyone else. Perhaps my ideal is naive; apparently you think this is something to be mocked. You call it liberal. But I think ideals must be established in order for our experiment to work.
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Re: NE Side

Post by redperro » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:59 pm

ContainsHotLiquid wrote: What I'm saying is, the sense of European nationhood has been built on an idea of homogeneity, an idea that a clear and uniform culture must be established to distinguish the nation from its neighbors. It is a crucial idea of sovereignty that simply does not exist in America - and it has led to problems in those modern states not only with immigrant communities, but with marginalized communities within the nations (the Basques, the Bretons).

By contrast, one of the great (if perpetually frustrated) ideals of America is that our sense of nationhood can be derived from many disparate communities. In my opinion, this ideal is something to which the nation can continually aspire; certainly many immigrants believe in it enough to come here and work to achieve it.

This is why I am personally so repelled when people insist that the immigrant communities in America need to conform to some other perception of America, as if somehow this is other America were more real and true than what these community the immigrants can contribute. I must argue that what immigrants bring to America becomes American simply by virtue of their being here.

It is why I am disgusted when people like Pat Buchanan and Sarah Palin invoke the idea of a "real American," as if anyone here was more American than anyone else. Perhaps my ideal is naive; apparently you think this is something to be mocked. You call it liberal. But I think ideals must be established in order for our experiment to work.
Americans are hamsters, is what the recent history has conformed us to be, theres alot of great things, but this idea that we can't cross cultures, we do live in a sick society of discrimination and chasing materials that do not matter.....


ANYWAY

yeeea i love northeast, there is alot of hope and cool houses and cute small hoodz, like the sheffield district the best, from winner road til 17th street, east of topping until crystal avenue, esp 12th street,

hell, i was in the east side.......over by ashland square park, hell, over south to 27th street, that area is still overrun with crazies and empty homes, but there is alot of activity goin on with hispanics creating new homes...THE EASTSIDE HAS SEVERAL MEXICAN PALACES!!!!!

one on 23rd st, on poplar and 26th, all over lister, elmwood

i wish i can get thru my education and earn enough money to buy and renovate a home

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Re: NE Side

Post by mean » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:52 pm

I find the idea of any particular nation as a bunch of isolated communities living happily together, with no common language or culture, to be a cute but ultimately unsustainable ideal. When, throughout the course of human history, have any "tribes" lived in perfect harmony, without adopting an "us vs. them" mentality against their culturally disparate neighbors? When has such a situation not ultimately led to mistrust, hatred, and war?

Anyway, I find the idea of "separate but equal" immigrant communities to be pretty offensive just on purely racist grounds. Don't be separate. Integrate. Become us as we become you.

Which isn't to say I'd support forcibly integrating anyone who wishes to isolate themselves in an immigrant community ghetto. But I don't think that's the best solution for anyone.
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Re: NE Side

Post by ComandanteCero » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:31 pm

I don't spend enough time in the NE to know if there is an isolationist tendency amongst the Somali Muslim community (whom i assume is who we're talking about).  But my guess would be that the mosques they attend are attended by Muslims of many nationalities (and backgrounds), and that their kids are going to public schools just like everyone else, and that despite having a strong neighborhood core, this will only last as long as the first generation stays around, while the subsequent generations will follow the standard American trend of moving on up to the suburbs where again they will continue to mix and interact with the broader American mainstream.

Granted, i'm sure that doesn't lessen the feeling of being an outsider when you do enter the existing community in the here and now.  I think the more communities interact the more that sense of community gets extended, and maybe what's needed are welcoming ways in which the different communities can gather and learn about each other and not feel like they can't interact.

For example, i think a NE neighborhood festival would be absolutely epic (i.e one where you got to sample the different foods/culture of the different groups, and gave everyone a safe way to experience each others cultures).  Have a soccer game where team members are mixed and matched.  Show everyone what they have available in their own backyards and encourage them to explore that (i.e the young Somali-American kid who discovers chicken tacos are absolutely awesome, or the Vietnamese-American girl who decides to learn how to apply henna). 

Seriously... that would be awesome... i'd so be there.
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Re: NE Side

Post by ComandanteCero » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:36 pm

not that it hasn't been done before....

http://www.nekcchamber.com/fall_festival.html
KC Region is all part of the same animal regardless of state and county lines.
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