huge electrical poles on troost.

[chrizow]

as some of you may have noticed, KCP+L has been installing massive (100-ft tall) electrical poles along Troost. 

neighbors in hyde park are upset b/c KCP+L apparently grossly mischaracterized the project.  it is also becoming clear that P+L circumvented the requisite council meetings, notice, hearings, etc.  i don't know the details of this, but it seems shady.

this is pretty much bullshit.  if it were anywhere west of troost, the lines would have been underground.  P+L sold this to hyde park and others on the basis that "requirements" in midtown warranted the new lines, but actually the lines are to power the plaza and downtown.  basically P+L pulled a bait and switch - AND, since troost is troost, were able to just put the lines up there.  by contrast, similar electrical lines are buried going to the plaza, downtown, etc.  in fact, there are ordinances prohibiting above-grade lines in these locations - not troost though!

it has been well-documented that above-grade lines like this are basically inducements to blight.  on one hand the city says it wants to revitalize troost, then it allows 100-ft above-grade power lines to be installed on troost, essentially ensuring blight and decreased property values near troost for decades to come. 

WTF?

[dangerboy]

There is also a new sub-station coming to the neighborhood

http://btoellner.typepad.com/my_weblog/ ... roost.html

[chrizow]

^ yep.  P+L had lots of public meetings about the substation, but the poles were barely mentioned at all.  these should have gone underground, period.  it's ridiculous. 

[Thaine]

Just for discussion's sake and not to say there isn't another solution, the City's right of way is pretty small in most places on Troost and is probably jam-packed already, underground.

[voltopt]

They absolutely should have been underground.  There is no excuse besides laziness and a complete disregard for poorer residential neighborhoods that has allowed these lines to be constructed as is.  All this indicates to me is that the status quo is alive and well in our fair city.

[voltopt]

Just for discussion's sake and not to say there isn't another solution, the City's right of way is pretty small in most places on Troost and is probably jam-packed already, underground.

This is probably true, but if the lines were buried they could have been placed on Forest or Harrison and still ended up at the substation at 30th and harrison...

[chrizow]

^ so why choose troost for the route?  and why not bring that up to the neighborhood instead of cloaking the project in dubious "this will be good for midtown" garbage?  

it's not like this was the only option.  it was just probably the cheapest, least politically dangerous option.  yay!

voltopt: well said.

[dangerboy]

Is there any other example of these poles in such a public part of the city?  Seems like these are normally hidden along a greenway corridor or at least mid-block between the backs of properties.

[Thaine]

This is probably true, but if the lines were buried they could have been placed on Forest or Harrison and still ended up at the substation at 30th and harrison...

Good point. Also not huge row in older residential areas, but possibly could have been done. 

[midtown guy]

With the Troost BRT line going in - -and the infastructure improvements that are going to come with that, it should have been a no-brainer to couple those projects and run the lines underground.

The reason Troost was supposedly chosen for the lines was because they said they needed them to connect the substation at 47th and Troost with the one at 18th and Charlotte. 

While they've been saying that the reason the new substation was needed is to handle the increased demand for power in mid-town, the reality is that the Stowers institute is taking a lot of the power from the 47th street substation and the revitalized downtown/crossroads area is sucking up power from 18th and Charlotte....

Had the Hyde Park neighborhood not stepped up and rallied other neiborhoods like Center City, that substation would already have gone in on a spot that would have involved tearing down a retail building along Troost....and this project still isn't over and there is still a lot of potential for ugliness on this one.

[rxlexi]

  yeah I mentioned these when I saw the first few being installed...just an absolute insult to the surrounding neighborhoods, not to mention businesses (as well as future biz) on Troost.  These powerlines are, to me, an admission by the city and the powers that be that Troost is not worthy of further investment, revitalization, etc. 

  That mindset believes that Troost is now and will forever be a place of ugliness - an industrial corridor and racial dividing line that is essentially unused for any other purposes, and who would want to live/work/play there anyway?  I just can't get over how insulting it is to the vibrant surrounding neighborhoods, future investors along Armour, 31st, and Troost and anyone that believes the midtown has a bright urban future centered around the redevelopment of those streets.  Bullshit, KCP&L.

[Midtownkid]

I agree that they are disgusting...but aren't their similar poles (but they are green) all over JOCO.  I'm thinking around 123rd and Blue Valley Road.  I think they run north-south pretty far.  I mean, we shouldn't look to JOCO for any infrastructure ideas (yuck) but it's a wealthy area w/ huge ugly power poles.  I guess introducing them into a city scape is a little different. 

[wetpaint]

I agree that they don't really blend into the neighborhood---but I kind of like them. Of course, I'm a big fan of industrial infrastructure.

[rxlexi]

I agree that they don't really blend into the neighborhood---but I kind of like them. Of course, I'm a big fan of industrial infrastructure.

  I hear that.  To me, the lines are not the problem.  It is the attitude towards Troost (and midtown in general) that they represent, and the admission from KCP&L and KCMO that the street is not worth saving or returning to any meaningful neighborhood scaled past.  It is now a utility corridor and used car lot, if not a full-on symbol of racial division, and that reality is all that many ever hope to see out of Troost.

[shinatoo]

Everybody needs to build a bridge. Do you know how incredibly fucking expensive it is to bury high voltage power lines? Not only do they have to be separated from themselves, you can't put them anywhere near any kind of data lines like telephone or cable TV because of the electromagnetic interference. Plus power poles are part of the urban infrastructure and a reality of living in places that have ELECTRICITY.

Not everything is an assault on the poor or the black.

[chrizow]

why are they buried everywhere else in town then?  from what i understand, basically NO ONE puts 100-ft tall high voltage lines above grade in urban areas anymore.  these poles were not a "reality of living" in KC until this year.  the other high voltage lines in KC are buried.  P+L knew that it would be controversial, so they kept everyone's focus on the substation (a very minor concern compared to five miles of poles) while these monstrosities went up. 

if P+L can bury these lines under the more affluent areas of town, they can do the same along troost.

[MidtownGrrl]

If they're just fine, why aren't they along State Line or Main between the Plaza and Downtown?  Since that's where the power is needed, would that be the MOST EFFICIENT place to install them?

[Thaine]

Short Utility Law Primer

KCPL can use KCMO's existing ROW free of charge pursuant to a franchise agreement.  However, that right is subject to the rights of those already operating in the ROW, and further subject to getting bumped by the City for future public projects.

Getting bumped means they have to move at their expense if the City needs them to at usually fairly short notice.  Things changed around here after the downtown projects when the utilities had to clear out whole blocks of established lines at their expense.  Now KCPL usually wants their own easements when they put in lines, especially if they're underground, so they don't have to worry about expensive relocation.

In addition to city row and private easement, a third option is that utilities can use someone else's easements, like the ATA.  However, ATA does not have to let them do that, and of course high voltage lines lead to the inquiry of whether that could even be done safely.  For our discussion, I'm not sure if ATA even has easement yet for the BRT or if it needs any.  Many times those types of negotiations take years.

I'm going to play the really bad guy here and say there is not enough row on Troost for the KCPL to bury the lines safely, and away from the other users.  Further, I'll just throw out that there's likely not enough on the side streets either.  For KCPL to get their own easement in the side streets it would cost a fortune.  In some cases, they'd be taking people's front yards way up to the porch.

There may have been other options for KCPL, assuming they needed to boost their lines like they did, but I'm not sure what they may have been.  Possibly under the streets on Harrison, but there may be water/sewer/gas there already, which requires substantial seperation from high voltage lines.

[LenexatoKCMO]

why are they buried everywhere else in town then?  from what i understand, basically NO ONE puts 100-ft tall high voltage lines above grade in urban areas anymore. 

Keep your eye's out around town - they are definitely around.  You see them a lot in Western JoCo, where the issue definitely isn't money.  With the high voltage transport lines burrying is going to be more of a last resort than a preferred option. 

[Thaine]

I'm not sure there are all that many projects where 5 linear miles are restrung.  The lines were buried recently in the 22nd street freighthouse area project but that took months and months of coordination and was only possible because in the freighthouse district there were utility vaults under the sidewalks.  And that was a 4 or 5 block project.  I'm sure those weren't high voltage lines either.