hyde park: believe the hype?

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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chrizow
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hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by chrizow »

depending on who you talk to, it seems like hyde park is either awesome/"real"/burgeoning or it is overrated/quasi-ghetto/stagnant. 

in my house-hunting, i've looked at some places in hyde park, specifically the area between gillham and troost south of 39th.  i think the area has a pleasant random, brushy, overgrown quality to it.  my real estate agent says hyde park home values are stagnant, especially in contrast with the fervent enthusiasm some have with the area. 

my question is for those who live there or who have knowledge of what it is like to live there:  is it awesome?  what effect (positive or negative) does the presence of troost 2 blocks away have on the area?  it seems like south hyde park has more houses and less apartment buildings.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by LenexatoKCMO »

It seems like it is a neighborhood with enormous potential but its success is directly tied to the health of midtown in general.  The housing stock is incredible for those price points - how mant other cities can you find giant 100+ year old near mansions at the doorsteps of DT for $150-250k?  But I don't think it will appreciate or see major reinvestment until they get some of the other midtown problems cleaned up.  Imagine what those houses would be worth if 39th and Main ever got cleaned up, Plasma Services closed down, and the Armour Corridor ever does indeed get less sketchy?
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by DaveKCMO »

LenexatoKCMO wrote: It seems like it is a neighborhood with enormous potential but its success is directly tied to the health of midtown in general.  The housing stock is incredible for those price points - how mant other cities can you find giant 100+ year old near mansions at the doorsteps of DT for $150-250k?  But I don't think it will appreciate or see major reinvestment until they get some of the other midtown problems cleaned up.  Imagine what those houses would be worth if 39th and Main ever got cleaned up, Plasma Services closed down, and the Armour Corridor ever does indeed get less sketchy?
agree 100%. while my feelings about midtown are no secret, i have many friends who own homes in south hyde park who enjoy the rough-and-tumble-yet-affordable nature of the area. don't buy on a cross-street!
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by chrizow »

DaveKCMO wrote: don't buy on a cross-street!
why?
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by ignatius »

Keep in mind there are 3 parts that have different vibes:  S, N and Central Hyde Park.  S is still pretty ghettoish even though a decent housing stock of smaller homes. Central is primo and forward moving with the largest, higher end homes. N is better than S with generally larger and older homes but has the Armour Section 8 housing close by.

Hyde Park will probably not have mass appeal for at least another decade.  It takes hard nosed urban pioneers to keep HP moving.  Some friends of mine used to live in S HP but outgrew the home with a kid.  They now have an amazing 1890 4000sqft Victorian home in N HP.  They only paid $200K for it about 5 years ago.  Those who want cool old homes on the cheap and willing to live in dodgy areas will keep HP going.  Problem is, those old homes are high maintenance.

Until the Section 8 housing goes away, HP will probably never have mass appeal.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by DaveKCMO »

chrizow wrote:why?
just think about all the reasons someone would take a narrow side-street that is either one-way or doesn't traverse all of midtown versus a major thoroughfare (armour, 39th, 47th) and you have all the worst-case scenarios you need. i've got no stats, just anecdotal evidence.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by beautyfromashes »

I think it's kind of sketchy over there.  I have friends that have lived over there and everyone has been broken into at least once.  I think it's because the homes are close together and the trees make it rather dark.  But, if you're a pioneer and have a big dog, more power to ya.  But, if your that vigilant then there are probably other areas of town with less hype where you could get a better deal.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by dangerboy »

People have put an enormous amount of effort into rehabbing Hyde Park and I know several people that live there happily.  However, I sense that it has been "on the verge" of blossoming for 10-15 years and never quite gets over the hump.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by beautyfromashes »

I'd stay west of Main. 
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by chrizow »

beautyfromashes wrote: I'd stay west of Main. 
interesting.  it seems like there are more weirdos and people loitering between main and broadway from linwood down to westport road than there are in south hyde park.  to me south hyde park feels more like the Volker/39th area. 

i like the area between troost and gillham from 41st south to 45th.  it doesn't have as many of the shoddy apartment complexes as up in the 30s and near armour.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by LenexatoKCMO »

chrizow wrote: interesting.  it seems like there are more weirdos and people loitering between main and broadway from linwood down to westport road than there are in south hyde park.  to me south hyde park feels more like the Volker/39th area. 

i like the area between troost and gillham from 41st south to 45th.  it doesn't have as many of the shoddy apartment complexes as up in the 30s and near armour.
I would agree - I think Hyde Park suffers more from shennanigans on Main than shennanigans on Troost.  How many of those break-ins are directly related to the Main street drug trade?
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by beautyfromashes »

The whole problem in those areas is 39th and Main.  Why can't they just park a police officer on that corner 24/7?

Thinking about it again.  You're kind of right about all the activity between Main and Broadway, especially, AGAIN around 39th street.  Where can people find a house that is safe in the city for under $150K? 
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by Nathan »

chrizow wrote:
i like the area between troost and gillham from 41st south to 45th.  it doesn't have as many of the shoddy apartment complexes as up in the 30s and near armour.
I know a couple (no kids) who live in this area and really like it.  In looking in the area, I agree that is the most promising section of Hyde Park. 
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by barkerr »

beautyfromashes wrote: Where can people find a house that is safe in the city for under $150K? 
Based on my experience looking for a home to purchase two years ago in that price range, I'd say "nowhere" is the answer to your question.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by ignatius »

Would be interesting to see the crime reports for HP compared to say Valentine or W39th area.  The friends I have in HP have never been broken into (home or car) but they've had things stolen from their lawn and front porch.  They've lived in S and N HP over the last 10 years and don't consider crime an issue enough to leave.  Taking care of a giant old house is a bigger issue. But there is clearly crime present with regular sirens, especially in S HP you may be living next door to a meth lab or drug dealer or a Bob Berdella.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by ignatius »

beautyfromashes wrote:   Where can people find a house that is safe in the city for under $150K? 
One bedroom condos off the Plaza would be about it - if you consider Plaza safe.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by Critical_Mass »

I lived in S. Hyde Park for a year or so in 2003 or '04.  It is a beautiful neighborhood (housing stock & large trees) and having the park nearby is nice if you're into jogging or playing softball / kickball with friends.  But, yeah, it is a little shady.  It could get a little spooky when the sun went down.  I lived on Kenwood near 41st, so maybe it was worse being right across the street from the park...  The park would attract people who would drink (empty bottles seen in the park in the mornings) and I'm sure there were people using drugs.  Some nights I could hear people laughing or arguing in the park late at night during the week.  Also, people would just park their car and hang out next to the park.  I felt uneasy a coming home a couple nights with drunk people who weren't my neighbors just hanging out on the street.  I called police once because a drunk gentleman was standing in the middle of the street next to my house and he wasn't getting out of the way of my vehicle.  I didn't want to park next to him and have to deal with him...
At any time of the day, people would approach me if I was out on the front porch or yard and ask for money, and once at night some guy jumped out of his car and came up to me on my porch wanting to sell me drugs...he thought I had signaled him or something.  He lifted his shirt to show me that he "wasn't strappin'"... from then on at night I smoked in the backyard!
My neighbor a couple doors down lived across the street from some Section 8 apartments that had a lot of visitors...drug dealing apparently occurring from out of the place.  The neighbor was assaulted and beat up pretty severely one night when he was letting out the dog.
I have another friend whose roomate was mugged at gunpoint on Harrison in the neighborhood within the last couple years.
It's definitely block to block.  I'd accept some urban realities in an interesting neighborhood if I was renting but I wouldn't buy in the area unless you knew you were going to stick around for a long time.
I think those Section 8 apartments were renovated and put on the market as condos...so maybe that corner has gotten better.  I think my experience there would have been much better without that element so close by.  I can deal with weirdos asking for money.  It's always the same people and they stop asking when you stop giving! 
Voltopt rented in the neighborhood like 6 years ago...he may have more insight.

If I was looking at purchasing a house in midtown, I would concentrate on the Volker, Roanoke, West Plaza areas where you wouldn't have a difficult time reselling when the time came.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by voltopt »

Critical_Mass wrote:

If I was looking at purchasing a house in midtown, I would concentrate on the Volker, Roanoke, West Plaza areas where you wouldn't have a difficult time reselling when the time came.
All of the anecdotes about living in Hyde Park are also true of the Volker neighborhood.  The biggest difference may be that you are paying the same amount for less house and a weaker neighborhood group in the Volker area, and in Volker you are near a commercial district.  I lived at 41st and Bell in Volker for 2 years, and besides the usual car break-ins (there were a few, but not as many as I've experienced at 16th and walnut for the last two years living downtown) I personally didn't have any issues.  There were shady characters, I suppose, walking around at night along Bell, 40th, and Genessee, but that is also true of Walnut street downtown.  However, I have heard more violent mugging and aggressive stealing stories in the Volker / West 39th Street area than any other neighborhood.  One person was attacked with a pipe at 41st and State Line in the late afternoon - another friend of mine was mugged at 38th and Wyoming at gunpoint.  I've also heard of a friend having the entire contents of their house stolen, at 40th and Holly street, and of a violent mugging at 39th and Terrace Street.  If I was looking for a house, and I was already comfortable with the Volker/ Downtown type of living, then Hyde Park would be a no brainer.  You get the most solidly constructed buildings in an area with similar crime statistics, yet a much stronger neighborhood association. 

  I find it amusing that living on Harrison, 1 block from Troost, is considered any more dangeorus than living on Walnut, 1 block from main, or washington, 1 block from Broadway.  And as far as stangant home values, that is pretty much true for the entire city over a 5 year period.  If you are looking to buy a house and make a tidy profit off of it in a short amount of time, you shouldn't look in the city.  If you are interested in investing in a neighborhood with your presence, home ownership, and energy, and are interested in helping the city (especially by paying property taxes), please buy in any of the aforementioned neighborhoods.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by midtown guy »

I've lived in North Hyde Park for over 3 years now. The three Hyde Park Neighborhoods definitely have different vibes and upside potential.

Central is the more established area. Nice homes.  Most of them remodeled and very nice. 

North has a mix of nice and not fixed up - -however, some of that is changing. In the past 6 months, one of the area slum lords has opted to start selling off his properties. All had suspect tennents and were nowhere close to meeting codes.  This will help North Hyde Park a lot.  North is starting to have some advantages even over Central.  There have been several art galeries that have opened in the North Hyde Park area (Barbershop & Hyde Park Galery off Gillham, The Phone Booth and a couple of others on Troost).  North also has closer walking access to bars and coffee shops (Filling Station/Martini Corner).  The business owners and the police department have really done a nice job of patrolling Linwood and have really helped the neighborhood by cleaning up some areas along that stretch.  Linwood (along with the Section 8 along Armour) have really had a negative affect on the neighborhood (as well as the afformention slum lord).  There are several buildings along Armour that are being renovated right now.  Several are going Section 8, and Several market rate. It will be very interesting to see the impact that those have (both positive and negative) along that corridor.

South is the least developed of the 3...it has a lot more mixed apartments interspersed which has had a negative affect on crime. However, a lot of the homes are being remodeled now and the close parks also help.  Gillham Park is in the middle of a lot of renovations that are going to make them much more appealing.  The proximity of South to the Museums is also a plus.  And, the houses tend to be smaller and a bit more affordable (with less maintanance). 

Hyde Park stands to benefit a lot from some of the transit changes that are going to happen soon.  Either North (Linwood) or South (Cleaver III) stand to be a couple of blocks from the most likely light rail routes.  All 3 parts border the new Troost Max line (Which should also help).

I think Hyde Park's upside is more tied to the development along 31st/Linwood areas as the condo market approaches -- and the vitality of Troost.  Troost continues to be a bit of a problem, but is becoming less so as some of the neighborhoods east of Troost (Manheim/Squire Park/Center City) become more developed and active.  This combination, along with some of the artists moving into the 31-35th street blocks of Troost are good signs for the future of this area of Troost -- which will be very good for the Hyde Park Neighborhood.
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Re: hyde park: believe the hype?

Post by kcjak »

Chrizow, please keep us posted on your seach in this area - I've been pondering housing in the area, too...great houses for the price.  But, like Dangerboy says, this area has been 'up and coming' for many many years.  It has been cleaned up aestetically, but all of the stories I've heard from residents are exactly what everyone on here has said - it's either great or dodgy.  I wonder how the Troost BRT will affect the area, as well as the rehab of the building across from Grand Emporium (or whatever it's called now).  I can only think that Hyde Park will eventually reach it's potential in the coming decade.

I live off of 39th/Mercier and I feel safe, but there are always sirens, shady people wandering around and the police helicopter w/searchlights now and then.  A lot of this area, I think is affected by the low income housing west Wyoming and north of around 34th St.
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