Drug Trade on Wyandotte in Wesport

[briantsmith25]

Novel idea.  Maybe we should arrange a KCRag field trip with a big yellow school bus, sack lunches, permission and waiver forms, and we can all experience the wonderful burgeoning enterprise that has shot up (pardon the pun) around the Labor Ready block.

Then we could come to my place for cookies and beer.

[Brodees]

Then we could come to my place for ... beer

Uh oh, then we better get two school busses ready for this forum.

[barkerr]

So why don't I just chill?

Nobody wants this on their street. I don't care what your tolerence of "shadyness" is. I don't consider where I live the "Ghetto" nor do I think I will never see any of this activity. But this shit goes on everyday. Not every now and then. It makes the street look like shit and brings in unwanted riff-raff. I don't give a damn about "civil liberties". They can go practice their civil liberties on their own block. The trash they leave behind is absolutley disgusting and the vibe they put off is intimidating to a lot of people. So NO. I'm not just gonna let them be and leave them alone to do what ever they want on what is otherwise a peaceful block.

You have my support 100% on this. I'd do the same thing if I were in your position. And as a matter of fact, the last time I passed this intersection, about two weeks ago, I saw a deal. It was in the middle of a Saturday afternoon, in broad daylight. Good luck on this and please keep us posted.

[nota]

Actually Mr. Smith, you are to be commended for actually trying to do something about it rather than just turning your head from crime like so many do.

[briantsmith25]

Actually Mr. Smith, you are to be commended for actually trying to do something about it rather than just turning your head from crime like so many do.

Well, Thank you!

[voltopt]

How long ago was that Voltopt

I suppose I could qualify that by saying it happened at 2AM when he was walking home from Harry's on a Monday night, St. Valentine's Day, 2005.

[KCtoBrooklyn]

A couple years ago, there was a movement to close down the Labor Ready (I'm not sure by what legal grounds/authority).  I was given a flyer which encouraged attending the hearing (with the city council, perhaps?).  I couldn't make it.

Needless to say, that initiative seems to have failed.  Is there anything that could be done?

I lived on the other side of 39th on Wyandotte for over 4 years and saw my fair share of deals going down.  I think that six-plex on the northeast corner of the intersection may have been home to a dealer.  That building changed owners a couple times, and it seemed that there was work going on inside, but it never got better.

But despite all of the shadiness, I never had any personal problems.  My car never got broken into (can't say the same about Brookside).  I would walk through the neighborhood in the middle of the night and never have any issues.

That area has so much potential- its being brought down by a couple trouble spots.  I enjoyed living there, and am optimistic that it could get turned around.  If that spot could be revitalized, I think it would significantly bolster midtown as a whole.

[briantsmith25]

A couple years ago, there was a movement to close down the Labor Ready (I'm not sure by what legal grounds/authority).  I was given a flyer which encouraged attending the hearing (with the city council, perhaps?).  I couldn't make it.

Needless to say, that initiative seems to have failed.  Is there anything that could be done?

I lived on the other side of 39th on Wyandotte for over 4 years and saw my fair share of deals going down.  I think that six-plex on the northeast corner of the intersection may have been home to a dealer.  That building changed owners a couple times, and it seemed that there was work going on inside, but it never got better.

But despite all of the shadiness, I never had any personal problems.  My car never got broken into (can't say the same about Brookside).  I would walk through the neighborhood in the middle of the night and never have any issues.

That area has so much potential- its being brought down by a couple trouble spots.  I enjoyed living there, and am optimistic that it could get turned around.  If that spot could be revitalized, I think it would significantly bolster midtown as a whole.

I completely agree. Besides the topic of this thread I love the area. Its so convienent to everything. I think that eventually it will get better. I have never had problem with my car or anything.

[mean]

The whole problem here is that those who are advocating leaving the poor drug dealers to ply their trade are not having it happen in their own neighborhood.

This may be the most hilarious thing that has ever been posted on this board! Congrats.

purist, in-a-vacuum, libertarian appeal to platonic notions of Liberty, etc., but c'mon, as a practical matter

So "purist ideals" are impractical? I don't think so. They work fine for me. They would perhaps work fine for society if people would stop trying to come up with excuses why they won't work.

Remember what Reagan said in 1960: socialized healthcare is impractical! Those crazy impractical ideals. All these decades later, virtually all of the civilized world has proved him right! Right? 

you're telling me you wouldn't call the police b/c the crack dealers and crackheads haven't infringed on your "liberty" until they rob or assault you?

Yes, although I wasn't speaking in hypotheticals. Fortunately, I don't see them that often up by my house, they are usually dealing at the park down the block. They wander up a few times a week though, and ask passersby (rather politely, I might add) if they, "need anything."

"Nope."

"Aight then."

when people rob and shoot other people due to drugs like crack, i will call the police 600 times per day to get it out of my backyard.  briantsmith is entirely justified.

When you get shot for being a snitch I'll visit you in the hospital. 

But seriously, of course when people rob and shoot other people for any reason you should call the police. But to me, pre-emptively calling the authorities on anyone because you think they might shoot you, or because they are wearing a turban and praying at an airport, or whatever, without any explicit or implicit threat, is borderline ridiculous. That's just me, though.

And in fairness, I don't know the situation over on Wyandotte. If I lived in an apartment and there were people whom I had a more-than-reasonable suspicion were armed, violent thugs hanging around by the front door of my building giving me nasty looks and making comments like, "the $@*! you doin' here, cracka?" (which has happened to me in the past) then I consider that a pretty strong implicit threat and would feel justified in contacting the authorities. But if people are just hanging out, being quiet, and generally minding their own business and just happen to be dealing, I'm fine with it. Well, fine enough not to try and have them arrested, anyway.

[Moniker]

But if people are just hanging out, being quiet, and generally minding their own business and just happen to be dealing, I'm fine with it. Well, fine enough not to try and have them arrested, anyway.

You're a fool.

Actually, let me qualify that statement. You come on this forum seeking to promote the quality of urban life over suburban life on a highly visible development forum and say you would not bat an eye at open drug deals in your own 'hood?

edit - I want to play nice.

[HalcyonKC]

The presence of open drug dealing in a neighborhood drives property values down. 

So, as a property owner, calling the police and taking other reasonable measures is justified.  To wit:

1.  I own the space.  I pay a fat check to the bank every month.  Thinking fondly of that money, I find that if I'm walking on the street in front of my place and notice a plastic bag or other trash blowing by, I pick it up.  It's minimal effort and would be unreasonable for me not to, given the investment I've made.  So similarly, if I notice trashy behavior, it would be unreasonable for me not to make the minimal effort to call the police.
 
2.  I will feel comfortable and safe in my space.  I'll take it upon myself to make sure that drug dealers, addicts and panhandlers, do not feel safe in that same space, as their presence is contrary to my interest in same.  Inflicting the police on them regularly is an expedient way to effect that.

3.  I am doing my part to reclaim my neighborhood for actual taxpayers.  If I feel the need to call the police, I can take comfort that I pay amply into the public coffers for that service. 

4.  If I were a landlord, I'd seek out conscientious tenants such as briantsmith25.  Their willingness to call the police keeps the neighborhood safe and protects the property and its value...and therefore the landlord's ability to collect decent rent.  If the neighborhood is not perceived as safe the units will stay vacant and be subject to vandalism and break-ins, or rent at a lower market rate that will tend to draw the very criminal elements the landlord wants to keep at bay.

5.  If, in calling the police, I find myself troubled by my technical infraction of libertarian ideals, I will take comfort that the drug dealers probably don't actually own the lots or public land parcels they've attempted to misappropriate for their activities.  I'll also be comforted by the fact that I'm not saying they can't deal drugs--they just can't do it near my property.  And perhaps I'll think to myself, "Wouldn't it be nice for them if a wealthy benefactor, (perhaps tompendergast?), bought up a vast tract of land where they could go about their activities in laissez-faire fashion without bothering anyone else?"  And then I'll wistfully go about my daily activities.

[tjokskalle]

    Just leaving drug users and sellers to their own space is indeed dangerous.
  My older brother was staying with me when he walked down to  get some beer.
      We were having trouble with petty dealers hanging out on a side street a block
away and the residents would not call the police and report them so when my brother
was just walking up my steps, a crack head hit him in the head with a bottle and he almost
bled to death on my front porch! I had to scoop up his blood with a dust pan it was so bad.
  Leaving these assholes alone is no solution because they bring others to the area looking to
steal to support the habit.  I am going to drive down there tomorrow.

[warwickland]

hell, why didnt i know about this?

[voltopt]

Yeah, let's get them!  What about a KCrag Posse (not officially sanctioned, of course)

[KCKev]

Yeah, let's get them!  What about a KCrag Posse (not officially sanctioned, of course)

Ok if your up to the challenge..

Lets get them JOBS and some kind of a future so they don't have to deal drugs.!

[warwickland]

Ok if your up to the challenge..

Lets get them JOBS and some kind of a future so they don't have to deal drugs.!

yeah, its amazing what otherwise incredibly nice people will do when they think they are pushed into a hard corner. they become fucking pricks. i myself don't know what to do other than react on spot.

[chrizow]

So "purist ideals" are impractical? I don't think so. They work fine for me. They would perhaps work fine for society if people would stop trying to come up with excuses why they won't work.

Remember what Reagan said in 1960: socialized healthcare is impractical! Those crazy impractical ideals. All these decades later, virtually all of the civilized world has proved him right! Right? 

dude, seriously...i'm an idealist too, radical love and all that, but i really don't think benevolently looking the other way when crack dealers set up shop on your doorstep is the way to go.  (i'm just assuming you don't actually think tolerating crack dealing in public is even 1/10000000000^1000000 as important as universal health care)

But seriously, of course when people rob and shoot other people for any reason you should call the police. But to me, pre-emptively calling the authorities on anyone because you think they might shoot you, or because they are wearing a turban and praying at an airport, or whatever, without any explicit or implicit threat, is borderline ridiculous. That's just me, though.

you really don't think crack dealers are more likely to cause/attract violence and property crime than a turban-wearing guy at an airport?  seriously, can you get any more wild with your comparisons?  my ridiculous fire-dealer hypo is more realistic than your reagan and turban-dude comparisons! 

if you and Tom P are cool with crack dealers out of concerns for liberty and free enterprise, more power to you.  i just hope you can see where we are all coming from - and it's not irrational paranoia.  crack has been a core reason for innumberable atrocities in this city and others over the years - many no doubt with innocent victims.  the war on drugs has clearly failed and its policies should be scrapped, but so long as we're stuck with the status quo, i'd prefer to have crack out of my neighborhood. 

[nota]

Libertarians are fine. Their views are fine. I have no problem with those.

My problem is that the law is being broken and some people are content with the "lazy way" of dealing with crime and criminals. - Waiting till someone is a victim before it becomes anything to worry about.

Mr. Smith and several others here advocate the proactive way of dealing with crime and criminals that we see rather than ignoring it and burying heads in the sand because we are libertarian.

Laws are laws and laws are being broken. I'm all for legalizing at least some drugs, but till then, I'll be reporting any drug deals I see as well as supporting others who report them.

And I did notice the poster above who said

When you get shot for being a snitch I'll visit you in the hospital.

AFTER they also said that these guys were just hanging around minding their own business. Mr. Mean, can you tell me why guys who are just hanging out minding their own business would shoot a snitch? After all, they are harmless according to your posts. Funny stuff indeed.

[Gretz]

dude, seriously...i'm an idealist too, radical love and all that, but i really don't think benevolently looking the other way when crack dealers set up shop on your doorstep is the way to go.  (i'm just assuming you don't actually think tolerating crack dealing in public is even 1/10000000000^1000000 as important as universal health care)

you really don't think crack dealers are more likely to cause/attract violence and property crime than a turban-wearing guy at an airport?  seriously, can you get any more wild with your comparisons?  my ridiculous fire-dealer hypo is more realistic than your reagan and turban-dude comparisons!  

if you and Tom P are cool with crack dealers out of concerns for liberty and free enterprise, more power to you.  i just hope you can see where we are all coming from - and it's not irrational paranoia.  crack has been a core reason for innumberable atrocities in this city and others over the years - many no doubt with innocent victims.  the war on drugs has clearly failed and its policies should be scrapped, but so long as we're stuck with the status quo, i'd prefer to have crack out of my neighborhood. 

Exactly.  In an ideal world, these people might ONLY be peaceably dealing and consuming substances.  However, a huge proportion of violent and property crimes are not only highly correlated with drug sales/consumption but causally linked to it.  Even if most of the people selling/consuming drugs in an area are peaceably minding their own business it only takes a few consumers at the end of their ropes or dealers suffering real or imagined slights to create a real threat to other residents in an area in the form of break-ins, assaults, armed robberies or even homicides.  The reality is that under today's drug enforcement regime violent/property crime follows drug sales/use and you can't separate the two.

Of course many reasonable people, myself included, that are familiar with the situation believe that our drug policy is a shambles and that legalization on some level and/or decriminalization of at least consumption are the only ways to significantly improve the halo effect of crime that surrounds the drug trade.  We should of course push for change in these areas.  However, the political reality is that the current enforcement regime is unlikely to change given current mainstream opinion on such measures.  As long as the current enforcement regime is in effect, a culture of violence and lawlessness will continue to be associated with the drug trade and as long as we must live with current realities, it is completely reasonable and desirable for concerned citizens to enlist law enforcement to remove drug dealing from their neighborhoods.  One should push for real change in the political realm, of course, as the only way to really address the root causes of the drug trade's halo effect but that doesn't mean that anyone should have to tolerate the SIGNIFICANTLY increased risk to one's person and property that is associated with the drug trade as it currently exists.

[Cyclops]

Why do you have to do anything about it at all?  How is it a problem for you?  Are these drug users/sellers hurting you somehow?  If so, how?  If not, leave them alone - it's their bodies, after all. 

To be more colloquial, "chill out."   :)

I lived this advice for almost 20 years, a mere three blocks from the location that briantsmith25 is talking about. My business was in an alley between Broadway and Central on 40th Street. There was a convenient little hideaway outside my door for drug deals, drug consumption, drinking, tagging, sex, urinating and my personal favorite... crapping. (Beermo has taken a couple of nice pix of my old door).

I had no problem telling all of the above to move along when we would hear the activity outside our door. There's nothing like the smell of pot in your studio, ten minutes before you have a meeting with clients, to test your ability to engage. Usually when you open the door in their faces and say time to move along, they are pretty cool because they are shocked more than anything. Drug dealers were the scariest of all however and would sometimes cop an attitude. There were more than a few times where I went "oh shit, this is not going to be cool".

It was my choice to open a business in an alley and we dealt with the humanity that came with it. In the late 80's in Westport it was a pretty cool place but still there was always the threat of crime. We were broken into a half dozen times, my old truck was stolen and trashed, an actress was mugged in the middle of the day, cars were constantly being broke into. The cops came and went and nothing really ever changed. The actual breaking point for me was the loan and check cashing shops that moved in at 40th and Broadway. Half of the clientele that use those places are complete assholes who I consider worse than crack dealers.

Anyway, you can only "chill out" for so long... Eventually I said screw it to Westport and moved on. Once again, my choice. The reality for Brian is he has a few choices. "Chill" and deal with it, engage and try to eliminate it or just move on to a better place. My opinion is that it is real sad that briantsmith25 even has to make those decisions. All three of them are more work than he probably needs.