Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby KCtoBrooklyn » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:38 pm

earthling wrote:An office building at NE corner of 47th/Main is going residential, luxury senior living. Would like to see some of the office spaces above Plaza retail also go residential.


Assuming the remaining office tenants stay in the city (maybe go to 46 Penn?) this could be a good thing - reducing vacancy and increasing demand.

However, I don't know if converting office spaces above Plaza retail would be a great idea. Those offices provided some needed amenities in the area and supply more activity and traffic to the area than residential would.

What I would love to see is residential added on top of some of the 1 story retail buildings. I have no idea if any of them were designed with that in mind or if it would require demo, but there are some buildings that aren't old or historic that I would be fine with tearing down (although, good luck with the current climate).

The building to the south of the movie theater (Anthropologie/J. Crew) is screaming for 3 stories of apartments on top (or how ever many stories are allowed in the bowl). The parking lot behind the Starbucks (and maybe including some of the retail buildings around it) should be redeveloped.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:44 pm

Not suggesting getting rid of all the office space above retail, but some of it. It's time to make the Plaza 'bowl' truly mixed use. Your other ideas are a good way to get there.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby AlbertHammond » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:56 am

earthling wrote:^Careful, chingon might call you out for stereotyping.

The building comes with a large garage, won't be surprising if most drive the two blocks to Plaza.

Forget it. 99% of people that live in nursing care facilities are not able to walk a block. I am not stereotyping. I have designed sites for them in the past and there is no interest in providing walking paths or walking access to adjacent sites because they won't get used. To live there means they are physically beyond those abilities. Almost none of the residents have cars either because driving is also not possible for them. Other than the premium view, this proximity to the plaza is irrelevant to these residents.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby kcjak » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:42 am

AlbertHammond wrote:
earthling wrote:^Careful, chingon might call you out for stereotyping.

The building comes with a large garage, won't be surprising if most drive the two blocks to Plaza.

Forget it. 99% of people that live in nursing care facilities are not able to walk a block. I am not stereotyping. I have designed sites for them in the past and there is no interest in providing walking paths or walking access to adjacent sites because they won't get used. To live there means they are physically beyond those abilities. Almost none of the residents have cars either because driving is also not possible for them. Other than the premium view, this proximity to the plaza is irrelevant to these residents.


While I agree with your assessment of most nursing care facilities, I believe this development will be 'luxury senior living,' rather than a nursing home or maybe even assisted living. A lot of wealthy seniors live in South Plaza condos or places like the Walnuts, and I have a feeling this will be an upscale place that offers amenities like a shuttle to the Plaza or Whole Foods. So while driving and walking to the Plaza may not be prevalent, the location to the Plaza will be relevant to the residents.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby shinatoo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:10 am

There are literally hundreds of fully ambulatory seniors living in "senior living" facilities at John Knox Village in Lee's Summit. And there are hundreds of those types of facilities around the city. Most seniors have specific needs that stand-alone living doesn't provide, but have no need for "nursing care".

To live in one of those facilities absolutely does not mean that walking to adjacent sites is in any way physically beyond their abilities.

I have this conversation with my 90-year-old grandmother weekly and have visited many "luxury senior living" facilities. She can outwalk most of us fatties on this site. But, I would like her to have the social interaction, support, and monitoring that comes with those types of places.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby AlbertHammond » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:11 am

kcjak wrote:
While I agree with your assessment of most nursing care facilities, I believe this development will be 'luxury senior living,' rather than a nursing home or maybe even assisted living. A lot of wealthy seniors live in South Plaza condos or places like the Walnuts, and I have a feeling this will be an upscale place that offers amenities like a shuttle to the Plaza or Whole Foods. So while driving and walking to the Plaza may not be prevalent, the location to the Plaza will be relevant to the residents.

The article stated:
The community also will offer 24/7 nursing and other services for a wide range of care levels, from low to high acuity.

Few able-bodied residents would be willing to pay for 24/7 nursing care if they don't need it.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby flyingember » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:03 pm

AlbertHammond wrote:
The community also will offer 24/7 nursing and other services for a wide range of care levels, from low to high acuity.

Few able-bodied residents would be willing to pay for 24/7 nursing care if they don't need it.

This isn't remotely a fair assessment of what these facilities provide.

1. There's a staff too. It's not just residents living there. You have employees and guests

2. a couple could have different needs. One of them needs 24x7 medical care and the other is able to walk. They pay for the room and care for one

3. Motorized scooters exist. Individuals using one shouldn't be limited to getting in a van

4. 24x7 care isn't only about physical help. There's people well adjusted to going outside on their own but need a reminder to take medicine, eat meals and the like. Maybe they simply can't see well or have memory issues and going outside to the park is possible with help.

5. Someone may be on hospice and can still get outside. They may want to be in a nursing home over a hospital but can't afford in home care that would cost even more.

6. They could be in a recovery program like after being in an accident and going on walks is part of the program. They need 24x7 up front and the goal is to transition back into the home.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby shinatoo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:28 pm

AlbertHammond wrote:
kcjak wrote:
The community also will offer 24/7 nursing and other services for a wide range of care levels, from low to high acuity.

Few able-bodied residents would be willing to pay for 24/7 nursing care if they don't need it.


Yep, that's what is great about these communities. If your physical health changes from independent to needing nursing (often times temporary) care you can have that without having to move. "Offered" at these facilities means that it's available when you need it, but you don't pay for it until you need it.

"Senior Living" typically means restricted to 55 an up. It's not a nursing home.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby JLowe2018 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:05 pm

This new luxury senior development is being done by Northpoint Development which recently proposed (and was denied) the redevelopment of the Plaza medical building for this same use. So it is highly likely this new project will be mostly the same except at a different location. If I remember correctly, their partners in the development were Stonecrest Senior Living and NSPJ as the architects.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby FangKC » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:30 pm

The Plaza is a popular location for office space. This makes me wonder why that building would ever convert to a senior living/assisted living facility. Why wouldn't it continue to be office space?

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby flyingember » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:31 pm

FangKC wrote:The Plaza is a popular location for office space. This makes me wonder why that building would ever convert to a senior living/assisted living facility. Why wouldn't it continue to be office space?

It’s a hard design to do large floor plates that are popular today.

Probably better to convert and reduce availability of an older style of building so there’s a need for new in a more modern layout.

I was in it about 3-4 years back and it was already dated even then

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby KCtoBrooklyn » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:47 pm

A new PIEA Redevelopment Area proposal has shown up in the KCMO Development Tracker map for the 4400 block of Belleview, NW of the Plaza. It looks like they are calling the redevelopment area "Midtown Crossing" (isn't that the name of the Home Depot/Costco development?), but the project might be called 44/Belle.

5 Story building with 138 apartment units (1 & 2 beds, average 750 sq ft), 3,361 sq ft of retial, and 177 structured parking spaces:

Image

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby Critical_Mass » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:06 pm

wow, that will be transformative.
looks like it will require demolition of 13 mostly 1 and 1.5 story small-ish single family homes (many of which have been converted to office use).
I wish Belleview and Madison could be converted to two-way between 43rd & Brush Creek. Belleview is a downhill racetrack as-is.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:18 pm

Is that The Point bar or across the street? There is a row of small bungalows on SW stretch, the way the incline shows am thinking it's that stretch. The diagram references pre-fab aluminum balconies, corrugated metal and painted steel. Sounds like it could go up quickly and that location is fine for these types of developments, especially if it exchanges run down bungalows for 138 units.

Would expect the trend to continue between Westport Plaza, many bungalows bought out for more of these developments, and a good chunk have been brick/stone rather than these pre-fabs but some pre-fabs mixed about is fine.

edit: OK, so critical mass also suggesting it's on the stretch of bungalows. Will be interesting to see how neighborhood reacts to tearing down homes.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby KCtoBrooklyn » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:24 pm

earthling wrote:Will be interesting to see how neighborhood reacts to tearing down homes.


Being on SW Tfwy makes these houses functionally obsolete. Some have been converted to offices, the rest seem very run down. I'm a big preservationist, but I wouldn't bat an eye about losing these houses for this project. There are a couple larger houses that I would be sad about losing if they were in a different location, but I'm fine with it in this case.

I believe this would be in the West Plaza neighborhood. I know the Westport Plaza neighborhood has had some objections to tear downs/densification, but I can't recall a case like this coming up in West Plaza in recent times. Especially since there is greater than 1 parking space per unit, I don't think there will be too much objection.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby capitolwildcat » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:50 pm

I'd be thrilled if this could kick start a conversation about Belleview/Madison, Westport triangle and even SW trafficway. I think this will be the first development west of that whole hot mess since the streetcar passed.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby jasty5 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:38 pm

I’ve spoken with the president of the west plaza neighborhood association and I think the sentiment is that this is a good use of the land. He also agreed that those homes in that location are functionally obsolete.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby FangKC » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:13 pm

This looks like a wonderful development.

It would be great if those houses could be given away if someone would pay the cost of moving them to vacant residential lots on the east side.

Most of the houses may appear rundown, but they all appear to have decent roofs. They are probably still viable renovations -- if moved. You might have to remove the porches, and perhaps do a gut job. Most are perfectly-sized for one or two people.

I wish Habitat for Humanity would do more of this kind of thing, where they would relocate houses that face demolition in redevelopment projects. Then get the volunteers to renovate them. Those old houses are probably built better than any new house Habitat for Humanity slaps up. My disabled cousin and her kids live in a Habitat house built for them 6 years ago that is already falling apart. The wind blew her siding off one whole side of her house. The roof leaks. Three of her home appliances have already failed, and she's had to replace them. She can't use her bathroom sink because of plumbing problems. She doesn't have enough income to fix the crap that has already come apart, and Habitat doesn't come back to make repairs.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby DaveKCMO » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:24 pm

jasty5 wrote:I’ve spoken with the president of the west plaza neighborhood association and I think the sentiment is that this is a good use of the land. He also agreed that those homes in that location are functionally obsolete.


that's kind of, um, shocking.

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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Postby earthling » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:08 pm

Yeah as some unfortunately oppose more density. This project hasn't made the media yet so still possible for NIMBYs to react.


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