OFFICIAL: Port Authority Riverfront Project

[DaveKCMO]

it sounds like she is more interested in her legacy and less in our city.

i dislike the woman intensely, too... but to play devil's advocate for two seconds: she's from the "old guard"... spoiled by the free parking on the Plaza and the goal of providing a "city beautiful" to be viewed from your steam-powered carriage. she does, in fact, speak for (or like) a lot of people -- mostly in her age bracket, but not all. i had some of them in my group last night, too. the key to winning this argument (which i think civitas will do) is focusing on the on-street parking in the plan and relating it to other parks IN THIS CITY that are similar (loose, theis, southmoreland, mill creek) that have events, but the surface lots don't equate to the size of the events held there. don't take the bait when she calls you pathetic, even though i'd also be hard pressed not to give her a proper boot to the head.

carry on, children, to meeting #3!

[staubio]

i dislike the woman intensely, too... but to play devil's advocate for two seconds: she's from the "old guard"... spoiled by the free parking on the Plaza and the goal of providing a "city beautiful" to be viewed from your steam-powered carriage. she does, in fact, speak for (or like) a lot of people -- mostly in her age bracket, but not all. i had some of them in my group last night, too. the key to winning this argument (which i think civitas will do) is focusing on the on-street parking in the plan and relating it to other parks IN THIS CITY that are similar (loose, theis, southmoreland, mill creek) that have events, but the surface lots don't equate to the size of the events held there. don't take the bait when she calls you pathetic, even though i'd also be hard pressed not to give her a proper boot to the head.

carry on, children, to meeting #3!

I did stay on the high road, but she went off on the Loose Park example saying that the neighborhood would be in an uproar, as was her experience when "she" held events there in the past.  I wish I would have asked her what she would have liked to do to Loose Park to remedy that situation.

I countered that there could be no more different places than a mixed-use neighborhood downtown and an affluent single family neighborhood around Loose Park.  She started into the "it is that way everywhere in KC," "you'll never change things," etc, standard old-guard protest before switching over to name-calling.

[staubio]

I posted a little something about it to my blog if anyone is interested.  I'm not sure if I really captured my thoughts on it, but I had to say something.

http://staubio.blogspot.com/2006/02/ani ... expos.html

[TheNorthlander]

Cool article.  I found it interesting that pedestrian friendly Zona Rosa subscribes to the connectivity and flow model you describe and has all of its parking on the very edges.  Note that ZR was done by outsiders, seems the KC establishment can't overcome its car centric mentallity.

[Tosspot]

Cool article.  I found it interesting that pedestrian friendly Zona Rosa subscribes to the connectivity and flow model you describe and has all of its parking on the very edges.  Note that ZR was done by outsiders, seems the KC establishment can't overcome its car centric mentallity.

To some extent, real estate developers merely package up some kind of built environment that feels good to be in, you know, something that hasn't been built in America for over sixty years, and bastardize it just as much as they have to in order for it to meet present day's demands such as automobile storage and ingress/egress. See: Zona Rosa.

[LenexatoKCMO]

pedestrian friendly Zona Rosa

Are you really a "pedestrian" if you drive to your destination, get out walk around a small confined area, and get back in your car and leave?  Isn't that pretty much what you do at Oak Park or Independence Center?  How is Zona Rosa more "pedestrian friendly" than either of those?  I could have swore it was surrounded by a giant suburban parking lot, just off a completely car centered, unwalkable interstate/thoroughfare interchange. 

[TheNorthlander]

Obviously ZR should have just been done like another stripmall, what was the developer thinking?

[TheNorthlander]

just off a completely car centered, unwalkable interstate/thoroughfare interchange. 

Both interchanges next to ZR have new sidewalks on both sides.  If this is unwalkable, inform us how to improve.

[Tosspot]

Both interchanges next to ZR have new sidewalks on both sides.  If this is unwalkable, inform us how to improve.

Try looking at the visually cacophanous, agoraphobia inducing shitscape of suburban crap all around the entrance to Zona Rosa - particularly Barry Road. Firebomb that area and try a second time. Just because a place has sidewalks does not mean it is automatically "walkable."

[enough]

^ (Oops -- Tosspot has just expressed my thought, albeit in more colorful language.)  Having sidewalks on both sides of a street doesn't necessarily impart walkability.  For an area to be walkable, you need to be able to walk across nearby streets.  I've walked to ZR from south of Barry Road.  It wasn't an experience I want to repeat soon.  Give it a try.  

[TheNorthlander]

This forum is just pathetic.  I actually post on the side of staubio and get attacked from all sides.  Screw it.

GO ANITA GORMAN!!!!!!

[Tosspot]

Don't have a cow. There's not much wrong with Zona Rosa by itself- it's the surrounding environment that is questionable, and makes ZR not live up to full potential. Its best bet would be to rely on the eventual decades' long retrofit of suburban areas into a built form a little (a lot) more amenable to the human scale.

[TheNorthlander]

It's been a long day.  ZR, yes is far from perfect, but at least something other than the cookie cutter suburbia shopping was done.  The roads and interstates are not ZR's fault.  The cul-de-sac neighborhoods, which is just the way the suburbs were/are done, right or wrong, makes for horrid traffic on the arterials.  I don't like the big box stores with massive parking lots.  I HATE building amenities like TSC that our out in a concrete moat.   Anyway, my point is that ZR is pedestrian friendly from my perspective and I thought it was similar in issue to the riverfront.  My family goes to ZR to walk, not to shop, and yes we drive to the parking lot first, because not all the sidewalks are yet constructed, but the city is working on them.   Similarly, if my family goes to the riverfront (which we do), we have to drive to get there as my short-legged relatives (children) aren't up for an eight-mile walk.  Once we are there, we would like the "interior" of the space to be as fluid and walkable as possible, which in my mind, the "interior" of ZR is.

[justin8216]

^ (Oops -- Tosspot has just expressed my thought, albeit in more colorful language.)  Having sidewalks on both sides of a street doesn't necessarily impart walkability.  For an area to be walkable, you need to be able to walk across nearby streets.  I've walked to ZR from south of Barry Road.  It wasn't an experience I want to repeat soon.  Give it a try. 

Try using the cross-walks, that are fully equiped with little buttons you push that turns on a blinking light that tells you its safe cross. Its quite the innovation for those of you who have never encountered one.

[Tosspot]

Try using the cross-walks, that are fully equiped with little buttons you push that turns on a blinking light that tells you its safe cross. Its quite the innovation for those of you who have never encountered one.

What a stupid comment. As if crossing those lovely 8 lane suburban arterials is just like wafting through a field of poppies.

[Tosspot]

It's been a long day.  ZR, yes is far from perfect, but at least something other than the cookie cutter suburbia shopping was done.  The roads and interstates are not ZR's fault.  The cul-de-sac neighborhoods, which is just the way the suburbs were/are done, right or wrong, makes for horrid traffic on the arterials.  I don't like the big box stores with massive parking lots.  I HATE building amenities like TSC that our out in a concrete moat.  Anyway, my point is that ZR is pedestrian friendly from my perspective and I thought it was similar in issue to the riverfront.  My family goes to ZR to walk, not to shop, and yes we drive to the parking lot first, because not all the sidewalks are yet constructed, but the city is working on them.  Similarly, if my family goes to the riverfront (which we do), we have to drive to get there as my short-legged relatives (children) aren't up for an eight-mile walk.  Once we are there, we would like the "interior" of the space to be as fluid and walkable as possible, which in my mind, the "interior" of ZR is.

Yes, it's actually not my intention to be hatin' on Zona Rosa. It's sure a lot better than the typical fair in that area.

[voltopt]

i was faced with the walkability dilemma last night....
for the first time in a DECADE i went out to leawood/overlandmissionexaathe, to the 810 zone.
that area makes me cry.
the funny thing was when the people i was with decided to move the group to "patty o quigley's" or whatever its called.
so we got in her car and DROVE HALF A BLOCK instead of walking across Roe.
these places are acceptable to these people because they are safe, homogenous, and convenient.
but there is nothing interesting about them, they look like cheap applebee's or something.

so that was the beginning and the end of my joco experience for this decade.  its funny, the average people at these places looked to be 25-40, white, some with kids, some from missouri suburbs "looking for a good time" or having an after work "happy hour", some looking fresh out of college, all seeming to enjoy themselves in this strange place that didn't exist 10 years ago.
i'm not going back - to long of a drive to get anywhere, and too much highway - i personally don't like driving that much.

the best thing about it was ending my night at a friends house on rockhill - still not urban by any means but so much more familiar, cozy, and turned outward that i enjoyed it.  if only suburbia had never gone through its limited access, sidewalks that no one will ever use, built only to appease city governments, massive setbacks and limited through streets it might be an intersting place.

i think traffic is easier to manage and get around in the city because most of the streets go through, so there are multiple ways to get somewhere, and less traffic.  anyway, this is sort of a rant, sort of a ramble. 
i've got to catch the bus - good day.

[Thrillcekr]

So I guess this means she was involved in KC's miserable decline over the last 40 years. Congrats to her for being old and useless.

TK, that statement makes you sound like a bigot. Lots of young people are to blame for that as well. Even more so in fact. They were the ones running off to the suburbs instead of staying and getting involved.  I'm not supporting the lady because she sounds like a bitch but I'll give her credit for one thing.  She stayed so she's a whole lot more useful than those who left or have never been.  She cares or she wouldn't be there.  She's just stubborn and that's a common trait that spans across all age groups. 

Staubio, don't be too discouraged.  When it comes down to it, regardless of what she said, other people in there heard you and understood the logic in what you said.  Other people who belong to neighborhood associations in that area which are becoming stronger and carrying more clout everyday.  Registered voters heard you and her both.  If I were you, I'd stand up in that room so everyone could hear me and I'd keep speaking up.  You don't need to be rude but you shouldn't be afraid to get into a debate with her either.  If you're right then most others will ponder it and agree.  Then a collective initiative is started in the form of petitions and people like that old lady are just circumvented.  If that doesn't work then you find out who is responsible and make everyone interested aware of it via neighborhood meetings and flyers.  After that, those groups contact the parties responsible with a "We voters know what you're up to. You just fell 3000 votes behind in the next election." letter.  Of course, by posting that link to your blog anywhere you can also help raise awareness.  That's how you get things done.  Refuse to lose.

[lock+load]

The riverfront development will be the topic on Up to Date this morning at 11:00 on KCUR.

Today Steve Kraske welcomes Pat Sterrett, executive director of the Port Authority of Kansas City and John Neely, a developer with Forest City Land Group to describe possible changes to the riverfront and its surrounding neighborhoods.  They'll welcome your opinions and ideas, too.

[kard]

The riverfront development will be the topic on Up to Date this morning at 11:00 on KCUR.

Today Steve Kraske welcomes Pat Sterrett, executive director of the Port Authority of Kansas City and John Neely, a developer with Forest City Land Group to describe possible changes to the riverfront and its surrounding neighborhoods.  They'll welcome your opinions and ideas, too.

Awesome!

Also, a reminder: The next round of public meetings are today and tomorrow (from  http://www.kcportauthority.com/aboutUs/ ... unity.html):

Third Public Meeting
6-7:30 p.m., Wednesday, March 15, 2006
Southtown Council
6814 Troost Avenue
Kansas City, Mo. 64131
OR
6-7:30 p.m., Thursday, March 16, 2006
Northland Neighborhoods, Inc.
5312 N.E. Chouteau Trafficway
Kansas City, Mo. 64119


This batch of meetings should be interesting.  I'm expecing plans and renderings from the developers to be presented.