OFFICIAL: Port Authority Riverfront Project

[QueSi2Opie]

stapleton, stapleton, stapleton... that project has total cache. the only available *natural* waterfront view in town (fake JOCO and JACKO lakes don't count for me). next door to downtown *and* a casino. i don't see how it *won't* sell.

...unless, they don't address the dog food plant across the way and the amenities in the park (fountains! piers! cafes!).

I'd also love to see a world-class conservatory built on our riverfront, in addition to a stationary riverboat/steamboat with a paddlewheel.  The riverboat could serve as a freshwater fish & crawdad restaurant with live jazz during the day, a nightclub with a DJ spinning popular music at night.  It could also house a small gallery/museum featuring historical artifacts, photos and other memorabilia in the pilot house and cargo deck.       

[KCMax]

Those are great ideas. I also wish they would do something like a booze cruise down the Missouri river, maybe ending up in Rochesport where there is a winery and bed and breakfast (don't know how long that trip would take though ,probably several hours???) You could even allow gaming on these trips like the old days.

Probably too much sin for Missouri to approve of though!

[QueSi2Opie]

Those are great ideas. I also wish they would do something like a booze cruise down the Missouri river, maybe ending up in Rochesport where there is a winery and bed and breakfast (don't know how long that trip would take though ,probably several hours???) You could even allow gaming on these trips like the old days.

Probably too much sin for Missouri to approve of though!

Unfortunately, the KC Port Authority, U.S. Army Corps, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services are all strict on riverboat traffic because it interferes with barge traffic, dam control, endangered species, etc.   

[warwickland]

i don't know why a sufficiently dense, walkable true new urbanist development wouldn't do great and if connected with transit of some type, it won't be isolated at all. afterall, it is nearly downtown kansas city, which is at least figuratively the center of the entire region. the key here is design, don't let the damn parking freaks ruin it, and i'd hate to see a bunch of sterile condo towers as well, but i'm sure that forest city is too smart for that.


man, speaking of the area...i could use some la sala's right now.

[DaveKCMO]

Unfortunately, the KC Port Authority, U.S. Army Corps, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services are all strict on riverboat traffic because it interferes with barge traffic, dam control, endangered species, etc.

then why do they offer riverboat cruises in st. louis? http://www.gatewayarchriverboats.com/. so is it just the KC port authority, since all of those other groups would obviously be involved on our side of the mississippi? is this something specific to the missouri river? if so, why?

sorry for all of the questions, i just don't understand the logic (especially since there is hardly any barge traffic on our river anyway).

separately, i did some googling on the kansas river the other day. turns out the railroads used political influence to shut down water traffic on that river, which basically sealed it's fate as a transportation option. also found out the reason they plugged it near manhattan (tuttle creek reservoir) was because of the flood of '51, which i presume is the same one that flooded the west bottoms and our riverfront.

[ComandanteCero]

nothing on their website...

http://www.kcportauthority.org/

looks like they put up the presentation they gave describing their vision of the site as a pdf file (i'm guessing this is what was shown at the meetings?).  Looks like they have picked pretty great examples for what they want it to become.  Let's hope it turns out like that.

website:
http://www.kcportauthority.com/aboutUs/ ... unity.html

Slide show pdf file:
http://www.kcportauthority.com/aboutUs/ ... ersion.pdf

[dangerboy]

Those St. Louis cruises are on the Mississippi River, which is much more navigable than the Missouri. 

The Corps of Engineers and the Coast Guard have work almost 24/7 to keep the Missouri even slightly navigable for something the size of a barge or river boat.  The Missouri has a very strong undertow current, much more debris, many more underwater hazards, etc.  Plus the Corps projects to enable barge traffic have made the river faster and deeper than natural. 

Another big obstacle is just a very entrenched mentality with the Corps.  Boat launches are possible and exist in Parkville, Sugar Creek, and the old riverfront park east of the Isle of Crap.  But it's going to be a big fight to change the Corps mind at Berkley.

[cdschofield]

There used to be a riverboat cruise boat that docked in KCK (Fairfax?)and would do dinner cruises on the weekends. There were some small amusement park rides and such over there as well. I just can't remember the name.

[Pastense]

The Corps of Engineers and the Coast Guard have work almost 24/7 to keep the Missouri even slightly navigable

Unfortunately, they accomplish this largely through "channelization" which means the artificial narrowing of the channel with the "groins" that one sees built into the river every quarter mile or so. This speeds up the flow and helps keeps the navigable channel deeper and free of debris. The downside is that the resulting 7-8 knot current is very strong and discourages recreational boating. No canoe trips on the Missouri. (Unlike the Mississippi or Ohio that are managed by a dam and lock system creating relatively placid pools that can be used for recreational purposes.) The upkeep of this system is a free taxpayer subsidy to the very marginal Missouri River barge industry. The industry justifies this by arguing that their "competition" with the railroads helps keep rail freight rates low. This is baloney. The relative volume of barge loads on the Missouri is minuscule compared to the rails that run along side of it. The barge lobby is still a good political contributor and remains aligned with the farm lobby through the "lower transportation cost" myth. As a result we don't have a recreational asset and canoeing or rowing are limited to the Kaw. Channelization is also damaging to native wildlife habitats that would exist if the river were in its natural state. Don't get me started...

[QueSi2Opie]

There used to be a riverboat cruise boat that docked in KCK (Fairfax?)and would do dinner cruises on the weekends. There were some small amusement park rides and such over there as well. I just can't remember the name.

The area in Fairfax was called "River City, USA" where the Missouri River Queen and Americana both docked until 1998.

[Pastense]

The Corps of Engineer's dredge, the Willam Mitchell, was docked there too, until it broke from its moorings during the flood in 1994 and destroyed itself on the ASB (Paseo?) bridge.

[staubio]

Unfortunately, they accomplish this largely through "channelization" which means the artificial narrowing of the channel with the "groins" that one sees built into the river every quarter mile or so. This speeds up the flow and helps keeps the navigable channel deeper and free of debris. The downside is that the resulting 7-8 knot current is very strong and discourages recreational boating. No canoe trips on the Missouri. (Unlike the Mississippi or Ohio that are managed by a dam and lock system creating relatively placid pools that can be used for recreational purposes.) The upkeep of this system is a free taxpayer subsidy to the very marginal Missouri River barge industry. The industry justifies this by arguing that their "competition" with the railroads helps keep rail freight rates low. This is baloney. The relative volume of barge loads on the Missouri is minuscule compared to the rails that run along side of it. The barge lobby is still a good political contributor and remains aligned with the farm lobby through the "lower transportation cost" myth. As a result we don't have a recreational asset and canoeing or rowing are limited to the Kaw. Channelization is also damaging to native wildlife habitats that would exist if the river were in its natural state. Don't get me started...

Right on.  The economic benefits of viable recreation on the river far outweigh any benefit to barge operators.  The comparison of the two industries is absurd.  In Yankton, SD alone, the tourism traffic outweighs the barge profits, but the Corps still drains Lewis and Clark Lake to keep levels up for barges. 

All of this and, with a view of the river, I've never seen a barge.

[dangerboy]

Check out Bill Lambrecht's Big Muddy Blues : True Tales and Twisted Politics Along Lewis and Clark’s Missouri River for a great accounting of the history of the river and the Corps' involvement.  He's a Post-Dispatch report who has spent several years covering the various legislation, lawsuits, and tension between the Corps and enviormental and recreation interests.

[DaveKCMO]

from thinkkc.com:

Kansas City adjoins the Missouri River's Corps of Engineers-managed shipping channel which runs from St. Louis, MO to Sioux City, IA.

Barge lines: 7 operate along the Kansas City area of the Missouri River
Facilities: 41 docks and terminal facilities exist in the metropolitan area
Channel depth: 9 feet (2.7 meters)
Channel width: 300 feet (91.4 meters)
Commercial tonnage, 2003: 3,649,724 short tons (U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)
Usual shipping season: late March through November

[aknowledgeableperson]

How about something like this for the riverfront

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/ap0 ... 2620060143

[QueSi2Opie]

How about something like this for the riverfront

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/ap0 ... 2620060143

I love gambling, but no more casinos in KC....especially with a destination casino being proposed for the speedway area and the addition of slots at the Woodlands.

[kard]

Just a reminder that the Port Authority's second public meeting concerning the development around Berkley Park is this week on Wednesday and Thursday, Feb. 8th and 9th, from 6:00 pm - 7:30 pm.  One meeting is in the south, the other in northern KC.

http://www.kcportauthority.com/aboutUs/ ... unity.html

[dangerboy]

I have to say I was quite impressed with tonight's meeting.  Civitas and Forest City did good job of incorporating feedback from last month's meeting.  Development is still a big quesiton, but from a planning standpoint the Port Authority is doing much better than in the past.  It's also moving quite fast, with the master plan due in June.

1) Incorporating the north bank and bike/ped access
Planners are proposing to use the north bank as part of the park.  In order to do this they are proposing bike/ped access on BOTH the HOA and Paseo bridges, forming a loop around the river.  Most of the north bank is actually KCMO, not NKC - especially the land between the levee and river that would be used for the park.

2) Parking
They had a great comparison showing a 600 space surface lot taking up  4-plus acres of the park's 17 acres.  A simlar-sized garge would cost $10-15 million.  Instead, planners say that there will be enough parking on the streets of the new neighborhood for 800 cars, plus another 600 weekend/evening spaces in the commercial/retail space and possibly 1200 more special event spaces across the railroad tracks.  I'm hopefully the parking monster may be kept at bay.

3) River access
This was a huge topic.  They think they can convince the Corps of Engineers to allow something, but it will be expensive.  Up to $10-15 million depending on how it's done.  There was a lot of discussion about the importance providing river access, even if it takes up most of the budget.  Otherwise there's not point in a riverfront park that is disconnected from the river.

4) Waterscaping
They have hired Atelier Dreiseitl Waterscapes, a world-class German firm that has designed some amazing projects like the new Potsdamer Platz in Berlin, Northpark Square in Portland OR, the Queens Botanical Garden,  the green roof on Chicago's City Hall, and lots of stormwater/public space projects in Europe.  Not much info on what they will do in KC, but they did bring in a couple of the firms principals from Germany to do their dog and pony show.

http://www.dreiseitl.de/en/index.html

[kard]

Thanks for the report.  That's neat about the parking!

When you say river access, what are they talking about?  (Sorry, I'm not used to water).  Boat ramps?  A stair-step like bank?  A fishing dock?

[dangerboy]

Thanks for the report.  That's neat about the parking!

When you say river access, what are they talking about?  (Sorry, I'm not used to water).  Boat ramps?  A stair-step like bank?  A fishing dock?

All/any of that.  Basically a safe, attractive way to get to the water itself and/or launch a boat or kayak.  they just talked about the concept of river access to find out how important it was to the audience.  The next stages will involve figuring out exactly what kind of access is doable and fundable.

I highly recommend going to Thursday's meeting if you can.