OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

[kboish]

Who knows, it was probably an "architectural vision" vs budget thing...as usual.
Did you even notice my Station-to-Park access changes on my proposal before you rudely just brushed it off?

This would greatly improve the access to the current set of stairs & paths. Lawn preserved, no need for a 100 million dollar overhaul.

I noticed it, pardon my rudeness for not acknowledging it.
Can you proved more details, is it an elevated stairway over Pershing?

I don't know what the cost of a grand staircase would be, you think $100 million? Seriously?
At least it would be an attraction unto itself while tying in US and LM completely together.
Does anyone else have an estimate of what a grand stairway with historical nodes for seating would cost?

-I imagine the two center driveways at US replaced with concrete (or better yet stone hardscaping).

-Where the patch crosses Pershing, the pavement could turn to cobble stone or at least brick. This would slow traffic and differentiate the path from the street.

-The path would continue across the island and provide better access to the fountain and a place to sit.

No bridge or anything crazy over the street. There is not enough traffic to need this. Maybe a pedestrian stoplight?

Your plan could also jive with the requested improvements U.S. has requested regarding improvements in access to the existing garage (via new bridge connection to Pershing) and the creation of a "plaza" b/w the garage and the west entrance of US. They could even wrap this plaza around to the front/south and eliminate some/all of the parking directly in front of the building to better make the connection you have detailed.

[flyingember]

The stairs and landscaping should have extended all the way down to Pershing but was left WAY SHORT leaving the dead space and stark hillside.

what landscaping? it's always been just concrete and grass with a scattering of trees. the design goal was to be open

I was referring to the original designs - not what we have now. Look at the original design renderings in my post.

you can't trust the number of bushes to match a design rendering ever

I have never seen a design rendering that didn't add extra landscaping, and today little people walking around

[Pork Chop]

I am convinced, that's a great picture to represent the idea of having stairs leading up to LM.

[bobbyhawks]

[pash]

.

[chaglang]

I am convinced, that's a great picture to represent the idea of having stairs leading up to LM.

Caveat emptor: those are a much smaller, shorter set of steps, running between two major, major tourist attractions, in a world class city. Actual results may vary.

[flyingember]

I am convinced, that's a great picture to represent the idea of having stairs leading up to LM.

Caveat emptor: those are a much smaller, shorter set of steps, running between two major, major tourist attractions, in a world class city. Actual results may vary.

yep. you can't compare Rome with Kansas City. they get 7-10 million tourists each year

if that was KC, the stairs would be empty

[flyingember]

Don't be silly, no one is comparing Rome to anything.
It's an example of how the stairs can be a gathering place and a grand entryway between attractions.

If something similiar was in KC I imagine there would be some people on the stairs going back and forth between LM & US.
Some people would be taking wedding photos with the photographer above and US behind them - what a backdrop.
Or the other way around with LM looming above the couple.
Something great could be on that hill and if done right it would become Kansas City's front yard.

the view from the liberty memorial is horrible for photos and get US in. the angle is really bad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KCUnionStation.jpg
this is a realistic angle to get both. think of how small the people would be with that tree being way bigger than any person.

photos of people and US would be nice from the lawn below the memorial

the other direction would work though but I'd never do it. adding a giant phallic symbol to a photo generally doesn't work. and the low angle to. this shows there's workable angles from below
http://sharingclosetspace.files.wordpre ... morial.jpg

[kboish]

the view from the liberty memorial is horrible for photos and get US in. the angle is really bad

What are you talking about? Have you ever even been up there?

[flyingember]

the view from the liberty memorial is horrible for photos and get US in. the angle is really bad

What are you talking about? Have you ever even been up there?

yes. and think of why any *portrait* photographer would put someone on the lawn in that scene? that's what I was saying was a bad idea

[Highlander]

the view from the liberty memorial is horrible for photos and get US in. the angle is really bad

What are you talking about? Have you ever even been up there?

yes. and think of why any *portrait* photographer would put someone on the lawn in that scene? that's what I was saying was a bad idea

Not sure what your point is. That photo could easily be cropped so that they sky and lawn are less prominent and the US stands out. Walking to the west end of the memorial also provides a better vantage.

That said, I like the lawn as it is. Not every space has to be filled and cluttered and it's a nice public space with the slope towards DT. With the taller buildings at Crown Center and downtown as a backdrop, it's kind of an urban Redrocks.

The Spanish Steps has a vibe that isn't going to work on that hill. They (the Spanish Steps) are constrained by buildings and in a high traffic area with a large pedestrian plaza bordering Rome's primary shopping area at its base. As said, PVP doesn't have the connection with the local neighborhood to generate the traffic regardless of what attractions we put in the park. Park attractions are not the problem - the stark park boundary with mostly highly travelled, high-speed roads is the problem. Only that northern end has any kind of connection with something human and it's even tenuous. Put dwellings around the park instead of highways and that changes everything.

[flyingember]

Not sure what your point is. That photo could easily be cropped so that they sky and lawn are less prominent and the US stands out. Walking to the west end of the memorial also provides a better vantage.

my point was in response to this:

Some people would be taking wedding photos with the photographer above and US behind them - what a backdrop.

that it's a fine vantage, but it's horrible for portrait photos. the scale just doesn't work. which is the context of the post I was responding to

[chaglang]

Penn Valley Park went in over an existing street grid, which is something I'd never thought about before but makes sense given that the park wasn't placed outside the city limit. Probably because of the crazy topography, there really wasn't much of a street grid. The only piece of the original road alignment left is the curve on Pennsylvania, which followed the contours of the creek and was apparently considered sufficiently picturesque:


Grauman Avenue, which is visible in block 62 of the first map, eventually became 27th Terrace where it ran south of Crown Center. The last remnant of that name is in these street tiles at 27th Terrace and McGee Trafficway:

[chaglang]

And here's an overlay of the 1895 (1909?) Sanborn and a current aerial. The Scout is in the front yard of 642 Villa Ave. It's clearer in this image how closely Penn Valley Parkway follows the old Pennsylvania Ave road path.

[Demosthenes]

Hmmm... very fascinating. I had never thought about what the park replaced either. I guess I always thought it was created as development moved south.

Grauman Ave... man that's so cool. It's amazing that those street tiles are still there!

[Pork Chop]

I am convinced, that's a great picture to represent the idea of having stairs leading up to LM.

Caveat emptor: those are a much smaller, shorter set of steps, running between two major, major tourist attractions, in a world class city. Actual results may vary.

But of course, I don't think anyone is suggesting that KC is Rome, but I like it when people think big. Personally, I am not in favor of keeping the lawn as is and I know there have been several ideas posted on this forum on how to make it better i.e. a memorial garden is one that I liked the most.

Some people like the lawn as is and some people see it as a blank slate to create something else on. Neither opinion is correct or incorrect, it's just a different opinion on what people want (do I sound like AKP? - no offense AKP).

It's what attracted me to this city in the first place, my first introduction to people that live here were very passionate people that wanted to make the city a better place to live.

Then I met people that hated the city and wanted everything to move out to the burbs (true story, but that's not for this topic). I am glad that met the former first, it's a great city with a lot of people rolling up their sleeves to make it even better facing a lot more people that could care less (not pointing to people on the this forum on that last part, it's a reflection of some people that I have met in person).

[aknowledgeableperson]

"Some people like the lawn as is and some people see it as a blank slate to create something else on. Neither opinion is correct or incorrect, it's just a different opinion on what people want (do I sound like AKP? - no offense AKP)."

The problem with Penn Valley Park is something that really cannot be fixed, this is without some really drastic changes. Although in an urban setting it is a park that is really isolated. It is surrounded by large structures (Union Station, IRS, Federal Reserve, Crown Center. Has major roadways on two sides (SW Trafficway, Main Street). Has a busy street running down the middle. Given the above it will never be a park like Central Park in NYC. It will always be a park that visitors, for the most part, have to drive to or take public transit.

One could break the park up into different sections for different uses. The area between LM and US could be treated like a blank canvas. Landscape it to make it like artwork. Maybe every 4 to 5 years change some of it around for a different look. The area south of LM would be like a big public area. Some cities have large public squares and this area could fulfill that. Use the rest of the park as it is being used now, a stock fishing pond, off-leash dog park, ball fields, and so on.

The drastic change would be to convert some of it to residential but that step would have many huddles to overcome.

[chaglang]

Something called the Fiery Stick Open has managed to have several truckloads of dirt dumped on the LM lawn, in preparation for their "Not Your Boss's Country Club" Country Club. Giant beer pong, natch.

[swid]

That's this summer's capstone event for LiveKC.

[smh]

Something called the Fiery Stick Open has managed to have several truckloads of dirt dumped on the LM lawn, in preparation for their "Not Your Boss's Country Club" Country Club. Giant beer pong, natch.

Man, if you thought Rockfest killed the lawn...what will 95 truckloads of dirt for 11 days do to the north lawn?