OFFICIAL: Crossroads Market (Grocery Store)

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:27 pm

Fox 4 News reported tonight that a downtown grocery store is being planned for the Crossroads District. It appears that it will go into that windowless white building on the SE corner of 18th and Main. I think it used to house a telephone/pager business. That's not a very big building, so it will be a small grocery. I hope it's not like the Quality Hill Supermart.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:29 pm

We definitely DON'T want anything like the midtown Home Depot or a big Price chopper place:

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:01 pm

I wonder if it is actually going into that building or are they constructing something new?

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:20 pm

They didn't say one way or another. Perhaps there will be more about it in the newspaper tomorrow. They were interviewing Sean O'Byrne about it. He oversees the "yellow people." I can't think of their acronym right now.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:42 pm

They didn't say one way or another. Perhaps there will be more about it in the newspaper tomorrow. They were interviewing Sean O'Byrne about it. He oversees the "yellow people." I can't think of their acronym right now.

Post by **bahua** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:44 pm

They could easily build a new building, and just have a three or four-story grocery store there.

My big question is: are there any churches within 200 yards to ruin their chances of selling beer?

It being in the Crossroads, I would guess that they would have a relatively nice selection of beer and wine. That's one thing downtown is hurting for. Grand Slam liquors just sells fratboy gray beer, so to get real beer, I have to go to Dipardo's or Gomer's.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:49 am

hate to look negatively on this but I think something similiar would be put to much more use in the CBD, around 10th & Main.....plus I want to be able to walk to it

If I'm going to drive, I'd probably just drive to Sunfresh or the Price Chopper on Vivion.

Sorry tat, good news for you though

KCforumer · Post by **KCforumer** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:00 am

18th and Main seems like a good central location. Think of the residents in the Crown Center area and Crossroads.

And, is the Vivion Rd Price Chopper better than the location in Brookside? If not, why not support the Brookside location instead?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:48 am

who cares which one? It's just a grocery store

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:05 am

If you put it at 10th and Main, I would have to drive!!!

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:13 am

I know, that's why I said sorry

KCforumer · Post by **KCforumer** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:19 am

KC wrote:who cares which one? It's just a grocery store

One is in the urban core (bigger definition of the urban core, that is, River to Waldo). Just figured people would support urban-core businesses before suburban ones, even if they are within the city's limits.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:20 am

I go to both...just whatever is easiest....that brookside P.C. gets plenty of support.

Post by **bahua** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:02 pm

I am convinced that there will not be a new grocery store downtown for a while. the River Market might get one, and I'm glad there's one slated for the nearby Crossroads, but I think developers(not residents) look at the Quality Hill supermart and the 10th & Main Osco as material competition to any grocery store that would attempt to locate right downtown.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:32 pm

bahua wrote:I am convinced that there will not be a new grocery store downtown for a while. the River Market might get one, and I'm glad there's one slated for the nearby Crossroads, but I think developers(not residents) look at the Quality Hill supermart and the 10th & Main Osco as material competition to any grocery store that would attempt to locate right downtown.

The QH Supermart is a joke. It doesn't have a deli, or sell meat, fish, produce, or liquor. It's a convenience store, not a grocery. The Osco doesn't stay open past 5:30 on weekdays, or on Sunday. Most working people do their shopping in the evening after work, or on the weekends. Osco doesn't have a deli, sell meat, fish, or enough produce to make it worthwhile. It can't serve the needs those needing a full-blown grocery. People who would shop at Osco still would have to go elsewhere anyway to get things Osco doesn't have. They wouldn't bother with Osco in that case; they'd just get everything at Sunfresh or Price Chopper.

I'm not making fun of you bahua, but a 3 or 4-story grocery store? I lived in Manhattan--one of the densest urban environments in the USA--and there weren't 3 or 4-story grocery stores even there. The closest was a 2-story. The grocery store was in the basement, and the deli/pastry shop was at street level. It was the only one in all of Manhattan that was multi-level.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:14 pm

I'd be more interested in several Duane Reade (NYC) type stores in each major section of downtown than one big grocery store. Produce is in the market, a monthly visit to Costco covers a lot and then there are all of the Asian stores in and E of the Market. Duane Reade stores would complete my needs.

As I said in another thread, the solution is not to have a big market but to switch downtowner diets to Asian food.

BTW, what's the scoop on another Garrett's going in near the library? I'm looking to buy across the library.

Post by **bahua** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:47 pm

FangKC wrote:The QH Supermart is a joke. It doesn't have ...etc, etc

I know. I live 100 feet away. I wasn't endorsing it(though they do sell steaks and things, if that's the kind of meat you're looking for), I was just simply saying that a developer would probably look at it as something that would cause another store to not be viable, and would hence back out of any proposal.

a 3 or 4-story grocery store? I lived in Manhattan--one of the densest urban environments in the USA--and there weren't 3 or 4-story grocery stores even there.

Manhattan also has enough parted out stores(bakers, butchers, produce, corner markets, delis) to root out the need most urban-dwellers would have for an everything-to-everyone grocery store. KC doesn't have that kind of variety in private commerce, and I have been trying to convince people on this board and elsewhere that that, and not a sunfresh/Hy-Vee/Price-chopper style store, is what downtown needs. However, people don't seem interested in such.

As for the existence of multi-level stores, I've seen a number of them before. For example, the Dominick's at the corner of Fullerton and Sheffield in Chicago, is 2 full, high-celinged, above-ground floors. However, whether they exist or not is neither here nor there. What's the alternative? A giant parking lot and a vast one-story building in the middle of what was once valuable urban land? No thank you! I have no interest in the Crossroads being ruined.

KCforumer · Post by **KCforumer** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:22 am

There isn't anything wrong with a one-story grocery store, as long as it doesn't have a surface parking lot. Maybe parking could be on the roof if they build a new building.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:03 am

Garrett's has reduced the amount of groceries they carry. Where the shelves used to be is now seating. They have 4 rolling shelves near the deli counter, which were only half full. I think I'd want something more than Garrett's.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:56 pm

I agree with KC about the idea of putting a grocery store on the street level of a parking garage. Garages are usually gigantic anyway, so the store would be of equal size to Sunfresh with a wide variety of goods. Customers could park in the lower level (below grade) parking for free. There could be an elevator or ramp that runs from the grocery store down into the lower garage, so that grocery carts could be used. The upper levels of the garage would be used for people visiting or working downtown. This plan would have not created another big surface parking lot, since the garage was already there. In addition, it would have provided enough on-site parking to allow residents who lived farther away to park their cars while shopping, and buy larger amounts of groceries. No one wants to buy six bags of groceries, or a case of beer, and then have to walk 10 blocks afterall.

There is a grocery store in the street level of an old converted parking garage on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. The downtown Osco is also in the street level space of a parking garage.

Like KC said, the library parking garage would have been a good location--since there is so much housing nearby. But that ship has sailed. The Poindexter Garage on W. 9th would have been a good location too. Since the city owns the library garage, the lower level could have been rented out to a grocery store operator for free. The city could have added another level to the top of the garage for parking lost to the grocery store. The benefits of giving free rent for the first few years to the grocery store to move there would pay off in the long run because more people would be willing to move downtown.

Since Tower Properties owns several of the surface lots north of NE of W. 9th and Central, I would hope that they would see the benefit of including this type of grocery store in one of their parking facilities. The block between Central and Wyandotte on W. 9th would be as convenient as the library site for most people living in the River Market, Quality Hill, the Garment District, Library District, SOLO, and the east loop.