KCRag Forum

On this month's TIF agenda is a proposal to demolish the Board of Education building at 12th & McGee and replace it with a 242-room Drury Plaza Hotel.

Includes 5,000 sqft of meeting space and 176 space garage.

See page 7 of the agenda.

KCDowntown

KCDowntown wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:04 am On this month's TIF agenda is a proposal to demolish the Board of Education building at 12th & McGee and replace it with a 242-room Drury Plaza Hotel.

Includes 5,000 sqft of meeting space and 176 space garage.

See page 7 of the agenda.

KCDowntown

Interesting. I am mixed on this.

I am not mixed. No thanks.
This is a 2.6 acre site according to the parcel viewer. They are proposing 242 rooms, 5000 sf meeting space, and a 176 space garage.
Meanwhile, the new Drury Plaza Hotel in Nashville is on a 0.6 acre site, 392 rooms, 9287 sf meeting space, and a 312 space garage. The Nashville one is 21 stories tall. (https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 100095882/)
Ours would be 60% of the rooms on more than 4 times the space...maybe a four-story building?
This is an entire downtown block. Nashville proves you can do this on 1/4 of the site. No TIF reward for under-utilizing this prime location.

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:14 pm I am not mixed. No thanks.
This is a 2.6 acre site according to the parcel viewer. They are proposing 242 rooms, 5000 sf meeting space, and a 176 space garage.
Meanwhile, the new Drury Plaza Hotel in Nashville is on a 0.6 acre site, 392 rooms, 9287 sf meeting space, and a 312 space garage. The Nashville one is 21 stories tall. (https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 100095882/)
Ours would be 60% of the rooms on more than 4 times the space...maybe a four-story building?
This is an entire downtown block. Nashville proves you can do this on 1/4 of the site. No TIF reward for under-utilizing this prime location.

I agree with all of your points.

But have to wonder if this is really a "prime location" right now. In 5 years for sure, but right now the east side of downtown is still a huge gamble. I do hope that the city pushes back and gets taller and more rooms, but 4 stories would still be a win IMO. And the new investment east of Grand might spur more development that way.

anonkcmo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:21 pm

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:14 pm I am not mixed. No thanks.
This is a 2.6 acre site according to the parcel viewer. They are proposing 242 rooms, 5000 sf meeting space, and a 176 space garage.
Meanwhile, the new Drury Plaza Hotel in Nashville is on a 0.6 acre site, 392 rooms, 9287 sf meeting space, and a 312 space garage. The Nashville one is 21 stories tall. (https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/ ... 100095882/)
Ours would be 60% of the rooms on more than 4 times the space...maybe a four-story building?
This is an entire downtown block. Nashville proves you can do this on 1/4 of the site. No TIF reward for under-utilizing this prime location.

I agree with all of your points.

But have to wonder if this is really a "prime location" right now. In 5 years for sure, but right now the east side of downtown is still a huge gamble. I do hope that the city pushes back and gets taller and more rooms, but 4 stories would still be a win IMO. And the new investment east of Grand might spur more development that way.

It's one block east of Grand. I might agree with you if we were talking one block east of Locust.

Not to mention that hotel development is booming (by KC standards) and there are one or more projects underway that received no TIF incentives.

Another comparison: the dual flag Courtyard/Residence Inn on Baltimore is 261 rooms + garage on 1.2 acres, 10 stories. No incentives on that one if I remember correctly.

There's an existing 10 story building (taking less than half of the site) and garage on this site already. Are they requesting TIF bc of the costs to tear that down? Renovate!

Booo. The court yard Marriott hotel is about the same size room wise(correct me If I'm wrong), denser, had no TIF or other incentives, and was built years ago when the market was even riskier. There is no reason why this project should be given incentives at this low of density. Now this Drury in is slated for what was KCPS HQ? Or am I mistaken?

Agree with the thumbs downers. There's enough momentum to raise standards and w/out incentives.

assuming it is a 4 story porposal, is there anyway to block it on the zoning/planning/city level

10 years ago this would have made it through. Hoping we don’t see this happen now in a radically different market.

What a drastic "reduction" in density. Dumb. They are treating the site like a suburban greenfield site. Actually most of Drury's newer suburban hotels are more dense and taller than this. And they want a tiff? This would be great project to say no to and prove the city does not rubber stamp tif projects. Send them back to the drawing board or even let them walk away.

KCDowntown wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:04 am On this month's TIF agenda is a proposal to demolish the Board of Education building at 12th & McGee and replace it with a 242-room Drury Plaza Hotel.

Includes 5,000 sqft of meeting space and 176 space garage.

See page 7 of the agenda.

KCDowntown

My Reaction:
LOL

Go find your local suburban 4 story Hampton Inn, and imagine it sitting on a prime piece of real estate (With an existing 10 story tower to be demolished) downtown... because that's what this proposal envisions.

anonkcmo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:21 pm
But have to wonder if this is really a "prime location" right now.

...4 stories would still be a win IMO.

This is literally right next door to the Sprint Center.You must be confusing locations. Any small development, especially at the expense of a tower tear down in that area of DT is unacceptable.

I'm not seeing anything in the document about the project occupying the entire block. Is it possible it's only taking up a corner? I mean, the current structure doesn't even take up a third of the site

What is wrong with the old building? It looks to be a pretty cool mid century building to me with more height than the replacement. Why can’t it be repurposed? It’s bad enough the public school board in this city can’t provide decent education for children for more than a decade; now they have to drop a terrible building in a prime spot.

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:23 pm I'm not seeing anything in the document about the project occupying the entire block. Is it possible it's only taking up a corner? I mean, the current structure doesn't even take up a third of the site

Not seeing any kind of details that would show the footprint of the hotel? For a project of this scale, it certainly has been under the radar.

And they REALLY want to build a 176 sq ft parking garage? I hope they mean 176 spaces. That would be essentially 13' x 13' - you could fit maybe 2-3 cars in that garage if that.

If the hotel only takes up a little of the block, I'd be fully in support, as long as they let others develop on it. We need more blocks that go out to the street and have multiple structures.

Why not just build on one of the many existing surface lots instead? Don't see a need to tear down a mid century building, that could be re-habbed, when there are plenty of parking lots in that area.

Is the library structure old enough for historic tax credits?

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:32 pm Is the library structure old enough for historic tax credits?

Amazingly, there's not an age requirement. Let's say that a group of internationally renowned developers came together to build 10 buildings in a brand new and crazy unique Kansas City style like nothing ever seen before. Their effort immediately upends the architectural community and it's clear that everyone in the world wants to copy the style. They could all be one year old and deemed to be of historical significance and worthy of protection because they started the movement and it was clear so quickly. That's something that could be protected. Coming from an entirely different cause the former Trade Center site gained historic significance in a moment. The footprints and remaining structure immediately were protected and integrated into a museum.

An eligible property must be:
• listed individually on the National Register of Historic Places;
• certified by the Missouri Department of Natural Resources as contributing to the historical significance of a certified historic district listed on the National Register
or
• of a local historic district that has been certified by the U.S. Department of the Interior

The building opened in 1960--58-years-old. It's eligible for historic tax credits under the old criterion of being at least 50-years-old.

Yes, there are vacant lots to build on, but it's the location. It's across the street from the Sprint Center, and block from an entertainment district.

They want TIF to remediate asbestos--before they can demolish it; and before they can build. Yes, the Residence Inn didn't ask for TIF, but they only had to demolish a two-story building, not a 10+ story building and its' garage, that might need implosion to bring down.

I assume they want to tear the building down because they cannot configure the present building to their needs.

A better use of TIF would be to remediate the asbestos, and also use historic tax credits to renovate the building into offices and housing. The building is currently set up with two entrances that go to separate parts of the building. The 12th Street entrance accesses the base. The McGee entrance accesses the tower.

Using the entire block for this hotel is a waste. The City should turn down their TIF request. Only building a small garage to handle THEIR guests would be a waste as well. If you are going to use an entire block, and build a new garage, build it large enough to handle neighborhood parking so that other surface lots can be developed.

If they were only taking the south third of the block for their hotel and garage, and selling the old BOE tower for another developer to restore, then I'd be fine with it.

The other worry I have is that Drury will use the entire block to build a four story hotel, and then they move on in 40 years--leaving behind a building that needs to be torn down.