A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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earthling
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A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by earthling »

Downtown could use a pedestrian only street and it has been brought up off/on here. Downtown also will need a decent shopping centric strip as the population grows and Plaza flops as a mall. Will throw out some ideas, add your own...

- 8th St between Main/Broadway seems like a great opportunity, tying in nearby street car stops and would merge in well to existing Phoenix stretch.

- Target hirise office/residential/hotel in the massive empty lots with garages that face 7th and retail spaces that face 8th, a couple large (for anchor retailers), most small.

- Some have a free bus that go down such strips but this is short enough not to need it. Suggest more green space, restaurant seating directly in the pathway or narrow passages

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How narrow or wide should it be?
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by DaveKCMO »

we stayed right off of exhibition road while we were in london, which was heavily pedestrianized but still allowed cars (a lovely compromise):

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WoodDraw
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by WoodDraw »

I think the more urgent issue is how to direct traffic away from main Street. What would this really accomplish? That and cap Truman road
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by earthling »

^Yeah and 8th isn't wide enough for a road and walkway. The above isn't a pedestrian only stretch anyway, it's more of a road with a wide sidewalk but is an interesting hybrid.

As far as priorities, The City could still have a master plan for 8th St so that when those lots along 8th are developed (sooner the better), it's towards a pedestrian only strip rather than isolated projects and lost opportunity.

Does 8th St seem to be best stretch or are there better stretches for pedestrian only? Eventually downtown could really use one - Denver has 16th Street, Minneapolis has Nichollet Rd downtown.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by KCPowercat »

Yes. At least Broadway and central. Great opportunity there.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by flyingember »

8th St Central to Walnut is the stretch to do. There's nothing fronting it today so you don't have a fight over access.

Don't do a master plan, we need a zoning overlay that requires a 2/3 to 3/4 agreement of the city council to ignore. This overlay would ban adding new curb cuts and any new construction or major renovations must remove them. The council then adds the overlay to any street with promise to be a pedestrian zone.

Could pre-add the overlay on streets where the idea makes sense and work towards the goal a segment at a time.
We may not be able to do this today, but imagine if Main St in the Crossroads got this overlay so that all future changes must be towards going ped and transit only.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by NorthOak »

I thinks is a poor idea for 8th.
8th Street is fine the way it is.
Downtown has so many issues still that are infinitely more compelling than this.

This is something that could be considered for the north interstate loop grid, if it is ever demolished and brought back to life with a master developer.
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earthling
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by earthling »

Assuming downtown targets a pedestrian street at all with shopping, Delaware through RM could be a candidate but could be hard to adjust to a broad shopping district.

What I'm proposing is strategic planning, not something in the next year or as highest priority. P&L needs to fill its remaining spaces afterall. If downtown pursues a pedestrian street long term, a master plan or zoning a street could start sooner than later. Eight St has massive lots needing development, crosses street car line and the existing Phoenix stretch is conducive to converting to pedestrian only. A plan or zoning could draw attention to developers if they like the vision. And maybe some new tallest buildings for downtown (residential/office/hotel) combos with retail facing the ped stretch.

But there could be better locations to do this, such as if North Loop is capped or removed. Though I don't support removing it, rather capping it.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by pash »

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Last edited by pash on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by loftguy »

You are right.
4th Street east of Grand has in fact been vacated by the city. It is no longer under public control.
Since they're now in private ownership someone needs to buy up all the properties along that corridor and create a village.
300 units of housing and a retail pedestrian mall sounds good.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by earthling »

Fourth Street might work but depends on what the target tenants are. If targeted as a mainstream shopping district with partly national retailers, being closer to office workers and convention people may make more sense, though 4th crossing streetcar line helps. And IMO national retailers in RM area would ruin it. Fourth St could still make a great neighborhoody ped stretch with local shops target and quaint narrow passageways. Could target both 4th and 8th, one local and other a bit more mainstream anchored ideally by hirises that the 8th street lots should be targeted for. BTW, Geneva has proposed 200 blocks as pedestrian only.

This would be nice to see down 4th...
Image

A Mediterranean style souq/souk might be far reaching but would be unique in one stretch. Have been through these in Morocco, very cool sense of space.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by smh »

pash wrote:
But I fully expect the city to fuck this up by building a black-hole parking garage on its lot adjacent to the City Market.
No no no don't you get it, no one goes to City Market anymore it's too crowded.

But for real, this garage is a case study in Shooting Self in Foot 101. Step 1: Invest $102 million in streetcar as significant effort to help change habits of city. Step 2: Build massive garage to the tune of $15+ million right in heart of neighborhood to undermine investment in transit and create further incentive to drive into neighborhood rather than walk or use transit.

A+ KC. A+
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by flyingember »

I find it amazing the city is literally undermining it's own efforts to tell people to not park around the city market.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by earthling »

smh wrote:
pash wrote:
But I fully expect the city to fuck this up by building a black-hole parking garage on its lot adjacent to the City Market.
No no no don't you get it, no one goes to City Market anymore it's too crowded.

But for real, this garage is a case study in Shooting Self in Foot 101. Step 1: Invest $102 million in streetcar as significant effort to help change habits of city. Step 2: Build massive garage to the tune of $15+ million right in heart of neighborhood to undermine investment in transit and create further incentive to drive into neighborhood rather than walk or use transit.

A+ KC. A+
Agree with your intent but it's more important to fill out every lot downtown, it's acceptable to have garages here and there as long as not 'just a garage', should also have mixed use integrated. The largest cities with effective transit still have public garages spread about, it's really more about doing it right than idealistically thinking none at all.

Is reasonable to have a couple public RM garages long term that allows developing out all other lots. But the garages themselves should be surrounded by retail and ideally residential/hotel or office above with spots allowing for public parking.

Ideally the streetcar would go down to riverfront with garages built along the industrial edges or under Grand bridge. Everyone driving parks in these 'deadzone' garages, takes streetcar and the RM and RF areas don't need much parking.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by smh »

earthling wrote:
smh wrote:
pash wrote:
But I fully expect the city to fuck this up by building a black-hole parking garage on its lot adjacent to the City Market.
No no no don't you get it, no one goes to City Market anymore it's too crowded.

But for real, this garage is a case study in Shooting Self in Foot 101. Step 1: Invest $102 million in streetcar as significant effort to help change habits of city. Step 2: Build massive garage to the tune of $15+ million right in heart of neighborhood to undermine investment in transit and create further incentive to drive into neighborhood rather than walk or use transit.

A+ KC. A+
Agree with your intent but it's more important to fill out every lot downtown, it's acceptable to have garages here and there as long as not 'just a garage', should also have mixed use integrated. The largest cities with effective transit still have public garages spread about, it's really more about doing it right than idealistically thinking none at all.

Is reasonable to have a couple public RM garages long term that allows developing out all other lots. But the garages themselves should be surrounded by retail and ideally residential/hotel or office above with spots allowing for public parking.

Ideally the streetcar would go down to riverfront with garages built along the industrial edges or under Grand bridge. Everyone driving parks in these 'deadzone' garages, takes streetcar and the RM and RF areas don't need much parking.
I'm not entirely opposed to a garage, I just think, as you said, that garages belong on the periphery so they don't draw auto traffic to the center.
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Re: A vision for 8th St between Main/Broadway as pedestrian only

Post by flyingember »

Who wants to walk to the river and see a parking garage in view?

garages don't belong in dark places people don't want to go today either
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