DEAD > 1640- BNIM HQ

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
loftguy
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by loftguy »

KCTOGA wrote:
macnw wrote:What happens to the tax base now if BNIM decides to bolt for Kansas? Hopefully won't come to that, but you know Kansas is just lurking in the shadows
These people are to hell-bent on making a point than they are compromise, money for the school students. They are trying to break TIF altogether. Helberg has already stated if this fell through she would simply have to tear the building down. What a shame. Again the school students suffer because the anti-TIF crowd cannot compromise. :cry: :evil:

There are consequences to every action. Some intended, some not.

BNIM is but one company. They are also urban stalwarts. Others are not such early adopters.

How many businesses, developers and otherwise, will not select downtown KC for investment due to the shift in climate?

As many have said in various ways, our newfound 'success' has a delicate nature.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by beautyfromashes »

loftguy wrote:How many businesses, developers and otherwise, will not select downtown KC for investment due to the shift in climate?
I'm sorry, can you expound on this question?
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by loftguy »

beautyfromashes wrote:
loftguy wrote:How many businesses, developers and otherwise, will not select downtown KC for investment due to the shift in climate?
I'm sorry, can you expound on this question?
The removal of incentives to offset the higher costs of development in downtown and the emergence of a perceived opposition will result in some choosing other options.

It is an outcome of the shift in process taking place.

I'm wondering how significant that impact is to be.
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by pash »

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Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by DaveKCMO »

actually, we have a very recent -- and strikingly similar -- moment to compare this to: the election of mark funkhouser and his subsequent TIF commission appointments.

the bigger question is will the petitioners feel satisfied if the city caps ALL incentives at 50%, as they've demanded, with no geographic constraints (at least i haven't seen any)?

...and will the city be able to convince developers to go along (which they were unable to do previously)?
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

"the right question is how much to pay, for what."

And to add another, how many TIF and other abatement projects have had their incentives extended or renewed beyond their original timeframe or when the development costs were recouped?
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

DaveKCMO wrote:actually, we have a very recent -- and strikingly similar -- moment to compare this to: the election of mark funkhouser and his subsequent TIF commission appointments.

the bigger question is will the petitioners feel satisfied if the city caps ALL incentives at 50%, as they've demanded, with no geographic constraints (at least i haven't seen any)?

...and will the city be able to convince developers to go along (which they were unable to do previously)?
Of course the country's economic conditions had much to do with the development during his time.
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Highlander
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by Highlander »

no message - sorry - don't even know how that happened.
Last edited by Highlander on Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by flyingember »

pash wrote:In other words, you're asking how many businesses and developments we'll lose if we stop subsidizing them. As I've tried to point out repeatedly, this is the wrong question; the right question is how much to pay, for what.
This is a good point.

TIF should be a one trick pony meant to fulfill a formal plan for an area. It should be help to get hard projects or projects in an unpopular location off the ground. It's not about extras or making things pretty. If the plan says all buildings must be LEED certified it's ok to help with that goal, if not the city doesn't.

Making the building "special" should come from other sources.

Like have a fund that helps do more with a project. Like adding a floor to create retail space or like this project, to add green space.
The basics are funds via future property taxes and would be limited only to the scope of the project. The extras would be a limited pot for all projects, think PIAC or MARC STP.
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FangKC
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by FangKC »

From this article in The Pitch:

On the East Side, a historic building meets its demise, making way for a Family Dollar
...

Speaking of places no one else wants to develop, let's turn our attention to the lonely, desolate moonscape that is the west Crossroads.

I kid, of course — the Crossroads, east or west, is a fantastic place. But it's a place where the value of buildings, the cost of development and the burden of real estate taxes have been the vectors of a renewed debate over incentives for developers.

Central to that discussion is Shirley Helzberg's decision to seek tax-increment financing for a building she bought 10 years ago, at 1640 Baltimore. TIF takes most of the future taxes that a redevelopment project would ordinarily generate and uses them to lessen the direct costs that a developer pays on a project.

In Helzberg's case, 38 percent of her $13 million project at 1640 Baltimore (which is meant to become a not-too-far-into-the-future headquarters for architecture firm BNIM) would come from TIF. The Baltimore proposal has sparked a new conversation about the priorities at City Hall and whether development incentives help or hurt other taxing jurisdictions, such as school districts, counties and library systems.

Helzberg used TIF to help build another of her Crossroads properties, the Vitagraph Building. She didn't use TIF to build a $5.9 million parking garage that serves the Webster House, another of the philanthropist's holdings in the neighborhood.

But she did this year appeal her tax bill on that garage.

Before it became a garage, the land at 17th and Wyandotte was home to the Orion Pictures Building, part of Kansas City's Film Row District. At that time, Jackson County valued the building at $879,667.

After Helzberg tore down the Orion Pictures Building and put in its place a new, 180-spot parking garage, in 2014, county assessors took another look and decided the property was worth $3.96 million. At that value, it generated $126,010 in property taxes in 2014, $62,715 of which went to Kansas City Public Schools.

Records with the Jackson County Board of Equalization show that in July, Helzberg's attorney submitted an appeal of the parking garage's tax value, saying the garage was worth $1.17 million, not $3.96 million.

Jerry Riffel, Helzberg's attorney, tells The Pitch that he believed the garage was "grossly overassessed" at nearly $4 million. He adds that the garage loses money "hand over fist."

The Board of Equalization, which hears tax appeals, compromised, knocking down the value of the Webster House garage to $2.26 million.

Of the BOE's decision, Riffel says, "I wasn't exhilarated, but I thought it was a fair compromise."

That took the tax value down to $74,186. As a result, KCPS was entitled to $35,843 in taxes off the Webster House garage when Helzberg paid her property tax bill on December 21 — $26,872 less than what it got the year before.

At least that's better than the $13,934 KCPS made in 2013, when the Orion Pictures Building still occupied the land.

...
http://www.pitch.com/kansascity/on-the- ... id=6482923
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by herrfrank »

Sad about the Downs building -- the primary roads throughout Kansas City used to be lined with two-story brick structures like this, largely abandoned in the 1960s and 1970s, and apparently decomposing/ collapsing now, fifty years on.
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by DaveKCMO »

council has punted their decision another week -- jan. 14
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by DaveKCMO »

DaveKCMO wrote:council has punted their decision another week -- jan. 14
...or so it seemed until about 10 minutes ago.

mayor introduces new resolution asking for "green solutions" funding to fill the gap in the project created back lack of TIF (i guess?). yael is tweeting about it: https://twitter.com/YaelTAbouhalkah
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FangKC
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by FangKC »

Instead of that grassy garden solution that negates a new building being placed on that parcel to the north, couldn't they just build cisterns under the parcel, with pumps, that could store excess rainwater, and pump it out when there isn't a risk of flooding, or overflow problems into the sewer? Using a solution like this would allow another building to be constructed on that parcel, instead of the garden.

This is a solution being used for Arbor House in the Bronx.

http://greenhomenyc.org/building/arbor-house/
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

I'm not sure how popular this would be but here goes.
Given the fighting over the use of tax incentives what about putting to a vote a proposal that let's the city issue bonds. The proceeds from the bonds could be used to provide low interest loans to various projects, projects limited to the area defined as downtown. Of course the size of the projects would be limited but it would be worthwhile to have many smaller projects instead of a few large ones. Payments could be interest only at first with a lump sum payment if and when refinanced or be creative in other ways on the payment schedule.
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by pash »

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Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
aknowledgeableperson
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

And some people wonder why a certain portion of the city residents are upset at City government, especially when it comes with projects like this. "What is several hundred thousand dollars as a giveaway to people with money to burn when the city has a billion dollar budget."
Not saying I agree with that view but that is how some view how the city officials approach economic decisions like this.
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by DaveKCMO »

subscriber-only article, but here's the gist:
Williford's compromise builds on the city's $662,000 offer, which would increase PILOTS to $40,000 a year. The 23-year TIF plan approved in October called for Helzberg's development partnership to make annual payments in lieu of taxes to the jurisdictions totaling $10,000 in years one through 10 and $15,000 in years 11 through 13.

Williford's plan also calls for all new city and county property tax generated by the 1640 Baltimore project to be captured for TIF-eligible project costs. But all other property tax revenue "will flow normally to KCPS and other taxing jurisdiction," the compromise plan states.

The Williford compromise also calls for the city to change its incentive policy such that PILOTS "representing a minimum of 25 percent of new property tax revenues (diverted via incentives) shall be made to the taxing jurisdictions for all projects seeking incentives in Kansas City."
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... omise.html
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

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ThorsteinVeblen
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Re: 1640- BNIM HQ

Post by ThorsteinVeblen »

I was disappointed to read that article. I'm guessing this is a win for the KCMO SD parents? Nothing instead of something? Now the hold up on the convention hotel too. This stuff definitely gives pause to developers. Hope something other than a surface lot becomes of the building but who knows.
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