Big, empty buildings. What's left?

[FangKC]

We are overdue for a nice implosion downtown.

Hush your mouth. We are done with that wasteful behavior!

There have been several sources over the years Dave that have indicated this building was poorly constructed, and that in time it will become unstable.

I would be all for retaining it if that weren't the case, even though I'm not a big fan of the building itself. If engineers could fix the problem, then I'd be for saving it because I agree it's wasteful to demolish buildings because the carbon produced to built them will be in our atmosphere for generations. That is unless there is a greater good argument. For example, building a larger building that would house more workers, or residents, and contribute more to the overall economy of downtown, and make your streetcar successful.

[Demosthenes]

We are overdue for a nice implosion downtown.

Hush your mouth. We are done with that wasteful behavior!

But what do you do with a building like this that is wasting space?

There's only certain times that an implosion should be used. And I think this may be one of them.

[DaveKCMO]

Just remember that it's owned by Tower, right? Think of all the good they've done with their other parcels in the north loop...

Lots of people say buildings are unstable, about to fall in, etc. they're almost always saying "I don't want to spend the money." The are saying that about the Lane and Midwest Hotel as we speak.

Sure, it would be nice to have residential mixed use built up to the sidewalk, but not if Tower is going to squat on a vacant lot for decades.

[Demosthenes]

Just remember that it's owned by Tower, right? Think of all the good they've done with their other parcels in the north loop...

Lots of people say buildings are unstable, about to fall in, etc. they're almost always saying "I don't want to spend the money." The are saying that about the Lane and Midwest Hotel as we speak.

Sure, it would be nice to have residential mixed use built up to the sidewalk, but not if Tower is going to squat on a vacant lot for decades.

This is true, however I have a feeling with all the momentum going forward downtown, and the streetcar having 2 stops in or near this sea of parking, these parking lot owners may just want to jump on board soon. I don't think it will be too long before they realize the potential that is available. There has always been potential, but nothing like now. There really wasn't much reason to develop the north loop. Other parts of downtown were higher on the list of priorities and office dwellers needed a place to park. Now the north loop is one of the final frontiers left, and there is actually development pushing toward it. The Commerce tower is a major development happening very close to that area. The Gumbel building turning hotel, and the Pickwick are both pushing development further north. And of course the River Market is densifying fast. It is going to be fully built out soon.

And the streetcar ties it all together. I'm sure that these people have to be looking at the potential of developing/ redeveloping those lots right next to the stops. It seems like they have been holding onto these lots in case a major development opportunity comes around. Well it's here.

[FangKC]

Demo, Tower Properties rarely develops anything unless it's a building space for Commerce or UMB.

The only hope I have is that some bigger bank will buy both banks, and their real estate arm, Tower Properties, eventually, and take advantage of developing the Tower Properties land holdings.

[Demosthenes]

Demo, Tower Properties rarely develops anything unless it's a building or space for Commerce or UMB.

The only hope I have is that some bigger bank will buy both banks, and their real estate arm, Tower Properties, eventually, and take advantage of developing the Tower Properties land holdings.

Yes I realize this has been the case for a long time, though I hope things may change with the way downtown is changing. They would really truly be insane not to jump at the chance to develop these lots and, ya know, make money.

But you're right, they may not ever change their ways. I thought they had plans for future development though, no? Like mega plans, way in the future. I could be wrong though.

[FangKC]

In the years I've lived in Kansas City, I have not seen one preliminary "place-holder" design for any type of building, or sets of buildings on blocks, on the Tower Properties blocks in the North Loop. Not one.

The banking Kempers (Commerce mostly) started assembling blocks in the North Loop in the late 40s, and by the 60s had cleared most of those buildings for surface parking. So that has been 60 years ago. The only structure they did build west of Main in the North Loop was the Executive Office Building and garage at 8th and Main. That garage has been demolished since, as it too was structurally unsound. And as garages go, it wasn't that old.

I find it strange that Tower Properties hasn't proposed constructing apartment buildings. They have developed suburban apartments.

http://www.towerproperties.com/properties.html

[longviewmo]

We are overdue for a nice implosion downtown.

Hush your mouth. We are done with that wasteful behavior!

There have been several sources over the years Dave that have indicated this building was poorly constructed, and that in time it will become unstable.

I would be all for retaining it if that weren't the case, even though I'm not a big fan of the building itself. If engineers could fix the problem, then I'd be for saving it because I agree it's wasteful to demolish buildings because the carbon produced to built them will be in our atmosphere for generations. That is unless there is a greater good argument. For example, building a larger building that would house more workers, or residents, and contribute more to the overall economy of downtown, and make your streetcar successful.

So it looks like they're moving towards demolition? Looked like they were training KCFD in the building last weekend, and that's not usually a good sign for the longevity of a building.

[Eon Blue]

In the years I've lived in Kansas City, I have not seen one preliminary "place-holder" design for any type of building, or sets of buildings on blocks, on the Tower Properties blocks in the North Loop. Not one.

The banking Kempers (Commerce mostly) started assembling blocks in the North Loop in the late 40s, and by the 60s had cleared most of those buildings for surface parking. So that has been 60 years ago. The only structure they did build west of Main in the North Loop was the Executive Office Building and garage at 8th and Main. That garage has been demolished since, as it too was structurally unsound. And as garages go, it wasn't that old.

I find it strange that Tower Properties hasn't proposed constructing apartment buildings. They have developed suburban apartments.

http://www.towerproperties.com/properties.html

Looking at that list of properties really makes Tower look like they're ashamed of their urban heritage.

Looking at the North Loop confirms it...

[longviewmo]

Not really, they just have all the "Property Owner" places listed first.

[FangKC]

The thing is that the Commerce Bank Kempers assembled the block of Walnut, Main, 10th and 11th street and demolished all those existing, individual, historic buildings to build the new Commerce Bank tower there, the garage, and the Petticoat Lane building. They did this while already owning multiple blocks of surface parking lots in the North Loop that were catty-corner across Main from Commerce Tower.

There were some pretty tall buildings on that block that were all demolished.

Lee Building -- 8-stories, SE corner of Main and 10th.
National Fidelity Life Building -- 11-stories, SW corner of Walnut and 10th.
Sharp Building -- 10-stories, NW corner of Walnut and 11th.
Waldheim Building, 16 stories, NE corner of Main and 11th.



1005 Main, 3-story retail building
1007 Main, 2-story retail building
1009-11 Main, 5-story retail building
1013-15 Main, 4-story retail building
1017-19 Main, 5-story retail building
1021-27 Main, 5-story retail building

1004-06 Walnut, 2-story retail building
1008-1010 Walnut, 5-story retail building
1012-14 Walnut, 5-story retail building
1016-18 Walnut, 6-story retail building, aka Hewson Building
1020-22 Walnut, 5-story retail building
1024-26 Walnut, 5-story retail building

The block of Main, Walnut, 10th and 11th streets.







Lee Building, SE corner of 10th and Main 8-stories.



National Fidelity Life Building, SW corner of Walnut and 10th Street, 11-stories.



The National Fidelity Life Building, and other retail buildings, on the west side of Walnut near 10th Street.



Sharp Building, NW corner of Walnut and 11th Street, 10-stories.



Sharp Building and other retail buildings on the west side of Walnut looking north from 11th to 10th streets.



Hewson Building, 1016-18 Walnut.



Waldheim Building, NE corner of Main and 11th Street, 16-stories.



This 1915 photo shows the west side of the block before the Waldheim and National Fidelity Life buildings were constructed.



Commerce Bank tower, 10th and Main



Petticoat Lane Building, 11th and Walnut



Here is one of my altered photos showing the North Loop with all the buildings that have been demolished since 1940.

[Eon Blue]

We need to start a separate "What Hath We Wrought?" thread.

[kboish]

This is better research than any news story on the "state of DT" I've seen. Thanks Fang! There is so much here that a reporter could write up an ongoing weekly special for a year on how our downtown has been affected by just this one entity.

[loftguy]

Just one note of correction.... the Petticoat Lane building at 1010 Walnut was developed by Larry Bridges, not Commerce.

He gets the credit for imploding the Waldheim and Lillis buildings.

Though the James Kemper clan has been exemplary in its efforts to purge the scourge of history.

[loftguy]

Also, as a note of context:

I'm not all that interested in slamming the Kempers for their efforts to asphalt over the footprint of the old city, though they do make a comely target.

The important point intended is that the Kempers were executing robustly the progressive professional planning policies of that time. It was the way of the future.

We should keep that in mind and apply our best independent thinking, as we deal with the development dictates of today. Some of the 'latest thinking' that is embraced with blinders, could potentially be detrimental upon execution and over time. Just have to make sure none of these policies have such lasting negative effects if we can.

Question authority...

[FangKC]

My whole point in illustrating the demolition of this city block is to question why Commerce Bank would demolish historic, functional buildings, some of which were beautiful structures, when they had already cleared several blocks of the North Loop under earlier progressive urban renewal policies. Stated simply, why tear down an intact, dense block of commercial structures to build a new tower, when you already owned several blocks of surface parking lots that were cleared years before--that you had not already developed with new buildings?

Often times, when buildings are demolished, it's because the developer, or nearby business, needs to expand and they cannot gain control of other parcels downtown. This was not the case with Commerce Bank. They already controlled multiple blocks of surface parking lots in the North Loop. Instead of building their new bank building there, they needed to demolish even more functional buildings. One building was 11-stories, and another was 8-stories.

The other thing that escapes me is why Commerce Bank would also go to the extra expense of having to demolish a bunch of standing buildings when they already owned blocks that were cleared?

That block had the type of density that we are now trying to rebuild.

The Sharp/Lillis building, Waldheim Tower, National Fidelity Life Building, and the Lee Building were the types of buildings that could have been renovated into residential housing. The Chambers Building, at 12th and Walnut, and the Midland Office Tower, at 13th and Baltimore, the Land Bank Building, near 10th and Baltimore, the Waltower Building at 9th and Walnut, the Baker-Vawtar Building, at 917 Wyandotte, and the Union-Carbide Building, at 912 Baltimore, are all very similar buildings that have been turned into apartments.

[shinatoo]

I remember back in the early 90s there was a proposal to turn downtown KC into a park like, business development like Corporate woods. They literately waned to knock down all the old infrastructure and destroy the street grid to have some kind of City in a Park. Seam to recall the Kempers being involved in that plan.

[FangKC]

Loftguy, I guess you would be the one to ask whether the Lillis/Sharp, Waldheim, Lee, and Nat. Fidelity Life buildings would have been suitable for apartment or loft conversions?

[Eon Blue]

At the DNA tour of Commerce Tower this week, someone said that the bank built the tower where they did to anchor the north end of downtown the way Crown Center anchors the south end.

Interesting that they chose further retrenchment for next new building rather than counterattacking the blight to the north.

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

Excellent research and the resulting graphs are helpful.
I'm not surprised that all of downtown could have been turned into a Sprint Center or Corporate Woods style campus.
Remember, before 2005, 2008, there was no energy for 'localization' or 'reurbanization.' Things were percolating in rust belt cities, but it wasn't at today's fever pitch.
I wish I'd saved what little propaganda was printed about downtown then. Specifically, I recall a real estate mogul's quote in a fluff piece saying, ''Come downtown, its not only for crazy artists." Resembling that remark, I read that as a clarion call for the suburbanization to begin, Jimmy John's and all.