Downtown Hy-Vee concept

[dnweava]

There should be a FULL sized supercenter, super target, or at least a full size grocery store within the greater downtown area. I think the best location would be at the north edge of columbus park/riverfront park as it would have easy access to the highway(front/I35 is a massively overbuilt intersection right now) and would be walkable to the streetcar, the train tracks in that space would probably require a new bridge to get cars and pedestirans between front street and city market area or build the building over the tracks(is already needed as grand ave bridge isn't pedestrian friendly). If a streetcar route goes down Independence Ave, I think the area between the loop and paseo would perfect as that area is run down right now, right on the highway and downtown adjacent. I also think the west bottoms would be good as it has highway access, is downtown adjacent, would draw from KCK as well and that area could use a big store to bring traffic to that area leading to more development in the bottoms. You always see a ton of stores surrounding this big box stores so bringing in one of these economoic magnets would be awesome for downtowners. I'd love to see a shopping center pop up within the greater downtown area with a best buy, kohls, shoe store, etc. I hate having to drive 10 miles from downtown to get to any of these types of stores.

I grew up in a town of 2,300 that had a walmart and 2 grocery stores, you can't tell me that the 15,000 residents in greater downtown, and 50,000 within minutes of downtown who are also under served by these stores, let alone the 100,000 people who come to downtown everyday for their jobs couldn't support one of these stores.

I threw in a super target and super walmart to scale in the corner with their parking lots to show how much room they take up.

[Eon Blue]

May I suggest an excursion to Linwood and Main for you?

[flyingember]

the riverfront spot isn't a bad spot. the port authority talked about putting a spur streetcar line there. it could make it worth putting an actual bridge over the RR at Lydia and improve connectivity to Columbus Park

the circled Indep Ave spot has a known geological issue, saw it mentioned in a piece about the HUD tearout

the bottoms I would think should be kept for civic things. put is in east crossroads or south westside before the bottoms

could always take a few key spots and earmark them for a new grocery store mixed use project. then sign an agreement even if it has a trigger. like when downtown adds X people they build

May I suggest an excursion to Linwood and Main for you?

this is why I like this Des Moines plan. it shows HyVee can do urban. and the city needs to take the entities that prove they're capable and do what it takes to get them to expand into urban KC

[chrizow]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's.

I have only been to the downtown Cosentino's a couple of times, but we go to the BKS Cosentino's regularly (when we do not feel like schlepping all the way out to Whole Foods at 91/Metcalf). Cosentino's is cool in that it carries a lot of specialty products and has a better-than-expected selection of wine and beer. I also like that it simply does not carry junk food like Little Debbie's type crap (but it does have about 75 varieties of expensive jams). But the prices on produce are a complete outrage - Whole Foods prices, but the produce isn't organic or even that great. Pretty limited produce selection too.

[flyingember]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's

7th grocery store, not second

I'm including ones that are within a few blocks of downtown, a short bus ride

Consentino's
China Market
Aldi's
Costco
27th/Troost development
Save a lot on 3400 block of Troost

small ones not counted (correct me if any of these closed)
Asia Market
a hispanic market at I-35 and SW Blvd
Badseed
Market 3
Quality Hill Supermarket

[smh]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's

7th grocery store, not second

I'm including ones that are within a few blocks of downtown, a short bus ride

Consentino's
China Market
Aldi's
Costco
27th/Troost development
Save a lot on 3400 block of Troost

small ones not counted (correct me if any of these closed)
Asia Market
a hispanic market at I-35 and SW Blvd
Badseed
Market 3
Quality Hill Supermarket

Dude.

[mykn]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's

7th grocery store, not second

I'm including ones that are within a few blocks of downtown, a short bus ride

Consentino's
China Market
Aldi's
Costco
27th/Troost development
Save a lot on 3400 block of Troost

small ones not counted (correct me if any of these closed)
Asia Market
a hispanic market at I-35 and SW Blvd
Badseed
Market 3
Quality Hill Supermarket

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of downtowners go to almost none of those stores. Maybe the Cosentino's.

I usually end up just driving to Trader Joes and use Cosentino's for a glorified liqueur store and sometimes for food if I'm running low.

I've never heard of the Quality Hill Supermarket, might have to check that out.

[snakeguy]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's

7th grocery store, not second

I'm including ones that are within a few blocks of downtown, a short bus ride

Consentino's
China Market
Aldi's
Costco
27th/Troost development
Save a lot on 3400 block of Troost

small ones not counted (correct me if any of these closed)
Asia Market
a hispanic market at I-35 and SW Blvd
Badseed
Market 3
Quality Hill Supermarket

Don't forget KC Food & Snake at 11th and Grand.

[mean]

Quality Hill Supermart is the convenience store behind the Quizno's at 11th and Broadway. Definitely not a grocery store.

[loftguy]

What about all the locations that have vending machines?

Hog heaven I tell you...............

[pash]

.

[dnweava]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's

7th grocery store, not second

I'm including ones that are within a few blocks of downtown, a short bus ride

Consentino's
China Market
Aldi's
Costco
27th/Troost development
Save a lot on 3400 block of Troost

small ones not counted (correct me if any of these closed)
Asia Market
a hispanic market at I-35 and SW Blvd
Badseed
Market 3
Quality Hill Supermarket

I'm sorry, but those aren't comparable to a real grocery store like Hyvee or walmart. quality hill supermarket? might as well list the grand slam gas station then, they have a similar sized selection.... I'm not familiar with market 3 so I'll have to check it out. Costco isn't downtown, I can get to the price chopper on vivion/north oak faster than I can get to 31st/main from downtown and I don't have to buy in bulk as I'm single in a studio apt, no point in buying 20 steaks when I only want 1 so a membership there isn't worth it to me.

I shop at Consentino's mostly since its easy and even if I spend a couple more dollars there on a trip, its still cheaper than a gallon of gas I'd waste going to the burbs and back , but I drive out to the burbs maybe once a month to stock up on things that are way over priced at Consentino's like breakfast cereal for example.

I live downtown and I see people walking into their condos/apts with walmart, hyvee, price chopper, etc bags all the time. There is a huge market for shopping downtown that isn't being meet as the large downtown population is forced to drive to the burbs currently for most things and those little ethnic/hipster grocery stores aren't real alternatives. I know of towns with populations smaller than that of downtown(let alone the daytime worker population and surrounding neighrbohoods) with walmart supercenters and multiple real grocery stores, this argument that there isn't enough population for it is bogus. We didn't even have costentino's a few years ago and they said there was no demand for it and it is packed every day.

[mykn]

Why would anyone think downtown could/would support a second grocery store? What am I missing? It seems like a fairly major coup to have the Cosentino's, let alone a second store. I have no data to back this up, but I would bet anything that 75% of downtowners get in their cars and drive 15-20 minutes to other grocery stores (westport, brookside, or the burbs) rather than shop at the downtown Cosentino's

7th grocery store, not second

I'm including ones that are within a few blocks of downtown, a short bus ride

Consentino's
China Market
Aldi's
Costco
27th/Troost development
Save a lot on 3400 block of Troost

small ones not counted (correct me if any of these closed)
Asia Market
a hispanic market at I-35 and SW Blvd
Badseed
Market 3
Quality Hill Supermarket

I'm sorry, but those aren't comparable to a real grocery store like Hyvee or walmart. quality hill supermarket? might as well list the grand slam gas station then, they have a similar sized selection.... I'm not familiar with market 3 so I'll have to check it out. Costco isn't downtown, I can get to the price chopper on vivion/north oak faster than I can get to 31st/main from downtown and I don't have to buy in bulk as I'm single in a studio apt, no point in buying 20 steaks when I only want 1 so a membership there isn't worth it to me.

I shop at Consentino's mostly since its easy and even if I spend a couple more dollars there on a trip, its still cheaper than a gallon of gas I'd waste going to the burbs and back , but I drive out to the burbs maybe once a month to stock up on things that are way over priced at Consentino's like breakfast cereal for example.

I live downtown and I see people walking into their condos/apts with walmart, hyvee, price chopper, etc bags all the time. There is a huge market for shopping downtown that isn't being meet as the large downtown population is forced to drive to the burbs currently for most things and those little ethnic/hipster grocery stores aren't real alternatives. I know of towns with populations smaller than that of downtown(let alone the daytime worker population and surrounding neighrbohoods) with walmart supercenters and multiple real grocery stores, this argument that there isn't enough population for it is bogus. We didn't even have costentino's a few years ago and they said there was no demand for it and it is packed every day.

Market 3 was a huge disappointment when I went there a couple of years ago. Essentially had the same selection as a gas station.

[mykn]

Quality Hill Supermart is the convenience store behind the Quizno's at 11th and Broadway. Definitely not a grocery store.

LOL, ok nevermind then. Might as well list that little snack place at 10th and Main. They're never open when I'm home, but it looks like it sells gas station food.

[longviewmo]

Hy-Vee has stores in towns of 1,800 and 3,200. They aren't afraid of operating with small markets. Granted, those places probably draw their whole counties and would have much lower overhead.

[flyingember]

irony is people are saying small stores aren't grocery stores. a modern full service store, sure, but there's convenience stores, I'm thinking a truck stop, that have as much space as some grocery stores in small towns, they just do more snacks and general goods.

it's moderately elitist to assume that a place that sells food isn't valuable because of it's size. there's room for many options downtown.
as downtown grows we'll need more large stores and small convenience stores equally. and you'd be surprised how many shoppers there are.

pash put it well on page 1-

in my opinion, downtown need more bodegas or corner-store sorts of grocers before it needs another big full-service place.

so if you want a corner store, expect to include small convenience stores that sells groceries at a premium. because that's where much of that market is to make money. I've seen similar stores in rural areas. they sell gas plus select groceries to save a trip 30 minutes away for some basic items. not much slecetion, sure, but you can get a meal to hold you over with what they have that cheaper than a restaurant. 30 minutes is similar to waiting for a weekend service bus in some parts of town.

10K seems like a good number of residents per store. what about all the tourists and workers? is downtown under served today? Consentino's was the 5th grocery store within reach of downtown and it's doing fine because there's need out there. they came downtown with 20k people.

there's room for more fully sized today maybe. in 2-3 years, absolutely.
a small mini mart could do well today. something like a sit down quick food place + groceries. two things downtown needs more of.

I've been through Bethany and Albany and have seen grocery stores in smaller towns than them.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Don't remember if it was ever reported how much but Consentino's did receive a subsidy to open. So I don't think it is a matter of population before another grocery store would open downtown.

[geeman68]

Quality Hill Supermart is the convenience store behind the Quizno's at 11th and Broadway. Definitely not a grocery store.

LOL, ok nevermind then. Might as well list that little snack place at 10th and Main. They're never open when I'm home, but it looks like it sells gas station food.

In & Out (10th & Main) is not meant for full service. It is a convenience store for breakfast and lunch/late afternoon crowd. There's an actual salad bar and cook station inside where Debbie makes breakfast and lunch items to order. Her omelets and burgers are great!

[loftguy]

Market 3 was a huge disappointment when I went there a couple of years ago. Essentially had the same selection as a gas station.

I tried, but I just can't let this lie.

When first opened, Market 3 was in 2,000 square feet, but they managed to provide a fresh soup and salad bar, a deli counter, produce, frozen and chilled foods and basic grocery and snack items.

What an asset. This concept is what we need and should have 10x over throughout downtown.

They have since doubled their size. They have a bakery chef who is churning out dangerous goodies daily. They have a full liquor license.

They've gotten better all the time and they ask the community to tell them what else it is that they need to do.

They work their butts off and have taken the risk, to make something good happen.

A tip of my hat to this group....

[geeman68]

Market 3 was a huge disappointment when I went there a couple of years ago. Essentially had the same selection as a gas station.

I tried, but I just can't let this lie.

When first opened, Market 3 was in 2,000 square feet, but they managed to provide a fresh soup and salad bar, a deli counter, produce, frozen and chilled foods and basic grocery and snack items.

What an asset. This concept is what we need and should have 10x over throughout downtown.

They have since doubled their size. They have a bakery chef who is churning out dangerous goodies daily. They have a full liquor license.

They've gotten better all the time and they ask the community to tell them what else it is that they need to do.

They work their butts off and have taken the risk, to make something good happen.

A tip of my hat to this group....

I agree. It was not what I expected when it first opened but hav become better and are taking the neighborhood's comments and suggestions seriously. They are working very hard to be something that everyone can enjoy and utilize.