Downtown Hy-Vee concept

[flyingember]

http://www.kcci.com/news/downtown-hyvee ... d/24654250
Des Moines downtown grocery store design

you may think that Conentinos just opened a few years ago

if downtown adds 20,000+ people another grocery store will be needed downtown. I would be inclined to have it be more southeast, maybe in east crossroads and help jumpstart that area more.

start at 0:47 and again around 1:07 for the store design
very much like the 51st/Oak project. grocery below, apartments above

[Demosthenes]

I agree man. Don't think we're quite there yet (would really like a couple more downtown CVS/ Walgreens though), but soon we could support another similar grocery I think. As downtown densifies there will be many more people needing groceries, and people aren't going to want to walk 8 blocks to do so (most people anyway).

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

Cosentino's will oppose, however they can and do, any further grocer's downtown. They were the only place in midtown for a long time, somehow. The DT location is lipstick on a hog, IMO.

[zonk]

The DT location is lipstick on a hog, IMO.

Really? I heard somewhere that the DT location was one of their top producing locations.

[bbqboy]

How much population within how far are considered the minimums for a full service grocery store?

[flyingember]

How much population within how far are considered the minimums for a full service grocery store?

there's 28 grocery stores in the core of the northland for about 300,000 people (clay + platte since they also serve rural populations)

that's basically one store per 10,000 people and they're roughly equally spaced

5x hyvee
1x redx riverside
festival foods
sun fresh x2
super target (shoal creek)
smaller target with grocery x3
walmart with grocery x3
price chopper 2x liberty, 2x n oak, 1x antioch
aldi's x2
hen house
save a lot
green acres
thriftway
something I forget in Claycomo

[beautyfromashes]

I don't know if there are enough people for two stores inside the loop. I could see a Columbus Park grocery store that would pull from the River Market and Independence Ave. or a Crown Center/Crossroads (open lots south of Hallmark) that would pull from Longfellow/NHP/Beacon Hill.

[flyingember]

I don't know if there are enough people for two stores inside the loop. I could see a Columbus Park grocery store that would pull from the River Market and Independence Ave. or a Crown Center/Crossroads (open lots south of Hallmark) that would pull from Longfellow/NHP/Beacon Hill.

Beacon Hill is getting the store at 27th/Troost

I would imagine down the line we'll see something in the area of-

Consentino's will continue to serve the central and west CBD, central crossroads and the river market (streetcar service) quite well
another store could go somewhere in the crossroads for better westside/18th and Vine service. this area has potential for most of downtown's growth
one for east village and Paseo West, maybe earmerked for this areas redevelopment
something new along Indep Ave closer to Prospect. not an Aldi's but maybe something like a Festival Foods

[Eon Blue]

I know for a fact that the Aldi on Admiral at Paseo draws downtowners.

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

The DT location is lipstick on a hog, IMO.

Really? I heard somewhere that the DT location was one of their top producing locations.

What's a 'top-producting' location?
Most profitable? Doesn't mean it's good, means its got a captive audience. Its a convenience store for tourists & DT people.

[KCtonic]

Doesn't mean it's good, means its got a captive audience. Its a convenience store for tourists & DT people.

A gas station located close to where one lives is "convenient", but a store that has a decent selection of groceries close to where you live is... a grocery store. If your point is that it's too expensive for you then fine, but otherwise it's a grocery store filling a need - not a convenience store or anything else.

I shop there as well as stores close to where I work in the Northland. Cosentinos is typically more expensive, has less selection than say HyVee on 64th street in KC North, but better products (what I want at least) than Red X which is closer to my work. Red X is still a grocery store even though it's more "convenient" to my work. Red X also sells a hell of a lot of cigs and liquor, but it's still a grocery store...

[flyingember]

absolutely. what niche isn't served for what area and what could it do to the market residential downtown?
competition is needed downtown. prices are much better at HyVee around the city because they have competition within reach

Aldi's serves one market, Consentino's another

HyVee overlaps both to some degree. and they offer basic services that downtown could use or use more of. event and sports tickets, post office outside post office hours (both downtown have bad hours), dry cleaning, bank on premise, pharmacy, and so on. just the extras most suburban stores would be worth going for another store inside downtown

[swid]

The DT location is lipstick on a hog, IMO.

Its a convenience store for tourists & DT people.

OK, I'll bite...what exactly do you not like about the downtown Cosentino's, and what would you propose they do differently?

It's overpriced compared to suburban hypermarkets and Aldi's? (yes) It wastes a third of its potential shelf space on the cafe and bakery? (uh...OK?) It doesn't have a Better Cheddar-level of selection for condiments, cheeses, imported foodstuffs, etc.? (No store is perfect, after all. )

[loftguy]

The DT location is lipstick on a hog, IMO.

Its a convenience store for tourists & DT people.

OK, I'll bite...what exactly do you not like about the downtown Cosentino's, and what would you propose they do differently?

It's overpriced compared to suburban hypermarkets and Aldi's? (yes) It wastes a third of its potential shelf space on the cafe and bakery? (uh...OK?) It doesn't have a Better Cheddar-level of selection for condiments, cheeses, imported foodstuffs, etc.? (No store is perfect, after all. )

Opinions differ.

Is the downtown store overpriced compared to Sunfresh, Hen House, HyVee, Price Chopper? Yes and no. I find a lot of things at suburban stores that run a third higher than Cosentino's.

If you're price conscious, you shop with awareness and plan your options.

Cosentino's is appreciated by most downtown residents and yes, visitors too. Great selection for a smaller store and it has one of the more friendly, helpful staffs of employees around. Pretty much a success story.

I look forward to competition to them, too. I've seen urban markets in other cities that would seriously challenge Cosentino's dominance in downtown.

[kcjak]

I'm thankful for Cosentino's downtown, but having been to similar downtown grocery stores in other cities (Salt Lake City, Austin, St Louis to name a few), ours is a little underwhelming in total selection, grab-and-go, prepared meals and outdoor dining/seating. Cosentino's fills a major gap, but would've liked them to have a little more insight as to what other cities offer in theirs.

[rxlexi]

What's a 'top-producting' location?
Most profitable? Doesn't mean it's good, means its got a captive audience. Its a convenience store for tourists & DT people.

I disagree so very much with this opinion of Cosentino's. Yeah, it doesn't compete head-on with a massive suburban Hy-Vee, or typically offer the rock-bottom lowest price, but given the square-footage it is a supremely attractive, usable and satisfying store. Nice beer/liquor selection, quality products, wonderful atmosphere and staff and all of the essentials.

If the lowest possible price is desired on a can of soup or milk or something, Aldi is close (and quite nice) on Paseo, or one can make the trek to the big-box Hy-Vee, etc. stores which in my opinion are exhausting to shop at. Or, better than both options by a mile for quality/dollar, Costco in midtown.

[flyingember]

or one can make the trek to the big-box Hy-Vee, etc. stores which in my opinion are exhausting to shop at.

you'd be surprised, but Hy-Vee agrees with you. they actually change designs over the years on figuring out how to make it easy to upsell premium products while making it easy to get in/out of the store.

aisle length and shortcuts are a huge part of perceived store size. Look at Englewood vs 64th St. the short aisles mean getting one item is less back and forth and with less categories per aisle you can skip more easier
in 64th pay attention how many aisles go by high margin products like candy, magazines, floral, organic, bakery

you may do more zigzagging but you can take a route that minimizes walking easier and they send you by the stuff they really want to sell. it's win-win in my book.

a similar thing is the target at I-35 and Antioch (or so) has a cut-thru between home and office. this shortens the segment functionally and it works to send you by product they want you to see. the aisles right next to this gap usually have premium products displayed compared to others nearby

[pash]

.

[loftguy]

We'll probably have to have a lot more residential buildings pop up before we can really get there, though.

Part of the reason we need to double population living downtown...

[DaveKCMO]

...and downtowners who aren't already shopping at cosentino's -- you know who you are -- need to start buying in the 'hood.