Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Demosthenes
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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by Demosthenes » Mon May 26, 2014 5:25 pm

flyingember wrote:
think as someone from Lee's Summit. Boulevard is in an industrial district, not downtown. If you live downtown the view is different but I can tell you that 99.99% of people in the city won't drive down SW Blvd.

If they would put in a signature bar, perhaps find a world-class chef to open up a coordinating restaurant with simple tavern food, that would be investing in the core in a much different way.

could do a classic Kansas City theme. Instead of a German beer hall, open up a Cowtown Beer Hall.

KC Strip Steaks and Boulevard Beer has a ring to it.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying that 99.99% of people in Lee's Summit would not ever drive down SW Blvd? Why is that? Does the Boulevard have a bad reputation or something? I mean I'm aware of the reputation that the Avenue has, and Troost as well though that is more of a stigma. If this is true I'm completely surprised. Southwest Boulevard has always seemed so tame to me. Weird.

And I think a Boulevard beer garden is absolutely brilliant. I am still blown away that Boulevard has not yet opened a brew pub. This would be a great move for Boulevard.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by flyingember » Mon May 26, 2014 5:35 pm

It was more a suburban example, but yes, that's right

They'll see I-35 and purposefully avoid the area, speeding down the bypass over the urban area

It's lined by factories, sketchy neighborhoods and such. These are people that look for parking less than a block away. The west bottoms is just beginning to be a place to visit in the daytime. Downtown is a place to avoid going past certain streets

For an urban resident it's nothing. But if your grandparents moved out of the city and your parents moved further think of how it looks?

Washington Square Park is suburban compared to SWb Blvd

I expect that neighborhood to change from south to north as areas like Valentine become fully occupied. Someone that would live in midtown and is looking for cheaper areas

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by grovester » Mon May 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Ponaks is almost completely inhabited by suburbanites on weekends.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by Demosthenes » Mon May 26, 2014 7:40 pm

grovester wrote:Ponaks is almost completely inhabited by suburbanites on weekends.
Yes exactly. Man I grew up in the suburbs and most adults I heard talking about good Mexican food would always mention the Boulevard. I never heard of anyone being fearful of going, and this was in a northland suburb (aka the part of town people who want to hide away and not be a part of Kansas City go to live).

I'm sure there are many people out in the burbs who think this way Ember. We all know how many people out there are scared of their own shadow. I'm thinking it's much, much less than 99% though. I think we've gotten to a point where most people aren't as fearful of the city, at least the main parts of it. The Boulevard is such a niche trip for most suburbanites too. I bet a majority of them only go on Cinco de Mayo, or at least when they are craving mexican, and all have had good times. I mean how much violence do you hear about on the Boulevard? None, really. It's quite safe.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by flyingember » Mon May 26, 2014 11:21 pm

I now work with people that hardly leave Johnson county. One mentioned he hasn't been even near Troost in decades.

With 2 million people if there were much more 1% of the region wanting to go to sw blvd on cinco de mayo it would be a zoo and in the news each year and the entire corridor would be redeveloped due to popularity. You can't get 20k people to one really small area of downtown and not notice it happening.

Also, talk doesn't equal actually going. And talk can sometimes cover up fear. I'm sure there's people who say an area has good food and then doesn't go ever. If everyone that says Oklahoma joes had good bbq went all the time they would need a restaurant in every single suburb.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by bobbyhawks » Tue May 27, 2014 9:16 am

flyingember wrote:I now work with people that hardly leave Johnson county. One mentioned he hasn't been even near Troost in decades.

With 2 million people if there were much more 1% of the region wanting to go to sw blvd on cinco de mayo it would be a zoo and in the news each year and the entire corridor would be redeveloped due to popularity. You can't get 20k people to one really small area of downtown and not notice it happening.

Also, talk doesn't equal actually going. And talk can sometimes cover up fear. I'm sure there's people who say an area has good food and then doesn't go ever. If everyone that says Oklahoma joes had good bbq went all the time they would need a restaurant in every single suburb.
Sidebar. I'm constantly amazed at how many lifelong KC area residents (or people here for decades) that I work with have never been to Okie Joes or Bryant's. You should get your KC card revoked if you haven't completed the Gate's-Bryant's-Okie Joe's trinity.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by flyingember » Tue May 27, 2014 10:40 am

I'm certain there's people that you could say the same about The Liberty Memorial, Washington Square Park and such even if they've been to Crown Center or Union Station

the link is nice, but it definitely disconnects the park from the surrounding area

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Tue May 27, 2014 4:37 pm

"I'm sure there's people who say an area has good food and then doesn't go ever. If everyone that says Oklahoma joes had good bbq went all the time they would need a restaurant in every single suburb."

Well, there is one located by 119th and Roe. It's good but for me and others there are better. Personally it is Jack's Stack but at Martin City. And there are many other very good BBQ places around town that might not have the name but that doesn't mean they are not up to Kansas City standards for BBQ.

Much like many who live in the city urban area and don't want to travel far to eat people out here in the burbs feel the same way. Might travel to the city urban area for a special occasion but why travel far for good food when good food is close to home.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by bobbyhawks » Tue May 27, 2014 5:22 pm

Still... I think you would find more New Yorkers, living and working near certain restaurants, who have never visited the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building than you would New Yorkers who have never eaten at Joe's Pizza or Katz's Deli.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by TheBigChuckbowski » Wed May 28, 2014 8:22 am

bobbyhawks wrote:
flyingember wrote:I now work with people that hardly leave Johnson county. One mentioned he hasn't been even near Troost in decades.

With 2 million people if there were much more 1% of the region wanting to go to sw blvd on cinco de mayo it would be a zoo and in the news each year and the entire corridor would be redeveloped due to popularity. You can't get 20k people to one really small area of downtown and not notice it happening.

Also, talk doesn't equal actually going. And talk can sometimes cover up fear. I'm sure there's people who say an area has good food and then doesn't go ever. If everyone that says Oklahoma joes had good bbq went all the time they would need a restaurant in every single suburb.
Sidebar. I'm constantly amazed at how many lifelong KC area residents (or people here for decades) that I work with have never been to Okie Joes or Bryant's. You should get your KC card revoked if you haven't completed the Gate's-Bryant's-Okie Joe's trinity.
You should get your KC card revoked for not including Jack Stack.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by bobbyhawks » Wed May 28, 2014 1:32 pm

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
bobbyhawks wrote:
flyingember wrote:I now work with people that hardly leave Johnson county. One mentioned he hasn't been even near Troost in decades.

With 2 million people if there were much more 1% of the region wanting to go to sw blvd on cinco de mayo it would be a zoo and in the news each year and the entire corridor would be redeveloped due to popularity. You can't get 20k people to one really small area of downtown and not notice it happening.

Also, talk doesn't equal actually going. And talk can sometimes cover up fear. I'm sure there's people who say an area has good food and then doesn't go ever. If everyone that says Oklahoma joes had good bbq went all the time they would need a restaurant in every single suburb.
Sidebar. I'm constantly amazed at how many lifelong KC area residents (or people here for decades) that I work with have never been to Okie Joes or Bryant's. You should get your KC card revoked if you haven't completed the Gate's-Bryant's-Okie Joe's trinity.
You should get your KC card revoked for not including Jack Stack.
Then it wouldn't exactly be a trinity, but point taken.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by Demosthenes » Sat May 31, 2014 1:12 pm

bobbyhawks wrote:
TheBigChuckbowski wrote: You should get your KC card revoked for not including Jack Stack.
Then it wouldn't exactly be a trinity, but point taken.
Nah Jack Stack doesn't belong. It isn't a classic, messy, roll of paper towel type barbecue joint that KC is famous for. Besides, they microwave their food. No bueno.

If anything, LC's should be a part of this group. But as previously stated, then it wouldn't be a trinity. :D

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Sat May 31, 2014 4:46 pm

It isn't a classic, messy, roll of paper towel type barbecue joint that KC is famous for
And OK Joe's and Gates is? Maybe, maybe years and years ago but not now. And don't forget the history behind Jack's Stack.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by Demosthenes » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:28 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
It isn't a classic, messy, roll of paper towel type barbecue joint that KC is famous for
And OK Joe's and Gates is? Maybe, maybe years and years ago but not now. And don't forget the history behind Jack's Stack.
Yes. They are. OK Joe's is located in a gas station. Definitely not fancy. And Gates has a certain elegance to it, but is really just a barbecue joint. Nothing like Jack Stack's fine dining. (Granted this is just for the Crossroads one as I've never been to the original down south. I'm sure the original is more of a classic, messy barbecue joint). The one in the Crossroads is unlike any other barbecue joint I've been to, and I don't mean that in a good way. Fine dining and barbecue should not mix. Don't think it is quite as good as the others either. As I mentioned before, I have a friend who used to work there and he said they would microwave some of the dishes. Could you ever imagine this happening at Arthur Bryant's?!? No way.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:06 pm

My statement about the two had to do with many of their current locations, not just a classic one. If you want a "classic, messy, roll of paper towel type barbecue joint that KC is famous for" then go to the original Bryant's or if it is still like it was years ago Rosedale. You go up to a counter, order, wait, for the food, and sit down - much like a fast food joint. You might say that about Gates but those locations are in newer buildings. BB's is another location that comes close. There are two places out south, Little Pig and Ray Rae's, that I haven't tried yet that everyone seems to really like.

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by Demosthenes » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:03 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:My statement about the two had to do with many of their current locations, not just a classic one. If you want a "classic, messy, roll of paper towel type barbecue joint that KC is famous for" then go to the original Bryant's or if it is still like it was years ago Rosedale. You go up to a counter, order, wait, for the food, and sit down - much like a fast food joint. You might say that about Gates but those locations are in newer buildings. BB's is another location that comes close. There are two places out south, Little Pig and Ray Rae's, that I haven't tried yet that everyone seems to really like.
Ray Rae's? Haha where is that?

And of course Bryants. That is why it is a part of my KC bbq trinity. Can't get any more classic than Bryant's, and my god it is so good!

Edit: Also sorry for sending this topic into barbecue land. Realizing we could talk about this forever, we should get back on track. Unless we want to talk about adding a barbecue joint to Washington Square :D

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Crown Center: urban disaster, shining star, or in-between

Post by Highlander » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:37 am

Didn't really know where to put this - it's been discussed in the forum before though. Sounds like others have noticed the underutilization of Washington Square Park. I've actually used the link quite a bit and think it serves its purpose as there never really was that much foot traffic in the area but giving pedestrians on the link more options to interact with the outside is a great idea.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-c ... b53db9df-1

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by KCMax » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:19 am

t one point the VanTrust development group was talking with Union Station about putting up an office tower on the lower-level surface parking lot, owned by the station, directly north of the park. But that would have blocked views of the downtown skyline, someone surmised, and in the current vision, Union Station would swap its acreage with the city.
Everyone wants to build up, but everyone wants to preserve their view of the skyline. Solution: INVISIBLE BUILDINGS

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by flyingember » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:25 pm

KCMax wrote:
t one point the VanTrust development group was talking with Union Station about putting up an office tower on the lower-level surface parking lot, owned by the station, directly north of the park. But that would have blocked views of the downtown skyline, someone surmised, and in the current vision, Union Station would swap its acreage with the city.
Everyone wants to build up, but everyone wants to preserve their view of the skyline. Solution: INVISIBLE BUILDINGS
There's an easier answer, sky bridges 20 stories up. Don't like your view? Try the next building over

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Re: Washington Sq Park between Crown Center/Union Station

Post by atticus23 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:27 pm

While this may be naive and pedestrian, instead of invisible buildings and skybridges (yes, I know that is sarcasm), why not build buildings that add to the skyline and make it more dynamic for everyone? Just a thought and/or wish.

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