OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:42 am

i'm also told by a local architect that they won't touch condos now because of the liability issues.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by KCtonic » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:30 am

DaveKCMO wrote:i'm also told by a local architect that they won't touch condos now because of the liability issues.
That's why you saw in Portland and Denver, buildings built and marketed as "luxury apartments" and then about ten years later they are converted to condos. After a certain amount of time (10 years?) that liability to the builder/developer is gone.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by kcjak » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:09 am

Sorry, but I'm not very educated on real estate issues as they relate to the condo market. Liability for what? Defaulting on a home loan?

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:17 am

kcjak wrote:Sorry, but I'm not very educated on real estate issues as they relate to the condo market. Liability for what? Defaulting on a home loan?
design/construction issues.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by earthling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:26 am

I can understand why a developer wouldn't start out as condos because they take too much time to sell and/or need to sell a good half of building before starting construction. Starting out as leased units then once full convert to condo has been the national pattern for a while now. The market conditions maybe not quite there yet for condo demand (on the higher end) and if able to get over $2/sqft leasing, there may be no drive to transition yet. Under $300K condos seem to be moving pretty well though, at least in Plaza area.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by KCtonic » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:22 pm

kcjak wrote:Sorry, but I'm not very educated on real estate issues as they relate to the condo market. Liability for what? Defaulting on a home loan?
Lets take one example that I'm familiar with:
Developer builds condo with his LLC. Much like with a new single family home, that builder is liable for the building to not have basic defects etc.
Unfortunately that developer (not going to name any names, but he happens to currently like crappy, suburban style apts in RM) seems to be very unlucky in building buildings that have water issues. The owners complain a lot, the HOA gets involved and eventually they get frustrated with a lack of solutions from the developer and they sue. The developer & builder and their LLCs are liable to pay for losses if they lose that lawsuit.

Now instead of making it a condo for people to purchase - take that same new building and make it an apartment building with all renters. The renters are still ticked about water coming into their residence, but they don't have a lot of means to sue or go after the builder. Whatever investor or owner of the building might still try to work out something to fix the problem and might even sue, but the likelyhood is much less. After a certain number of years, the building converts to Condos with owners. Even if the water problem is still there, the builder and developer are out of it and have no or at least less liability.

That's just one scenario. I think Denver even has a law that for 10 years (something like that) the builder has liability to the owner for defects. After that, those buildings often convert over to Condos if the market warrants it.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by taxi » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:31 pm

There are lots of reasons, besides liabilities, for not building condos. And conversions can be tricky, mainly due to the Dodd Frank laws that were enacted in response to condo development problems tied to the housing bubble of 2008-ish. They make buyer financing very difficult. Also, a lot of developers use historic tax credits and other incentives to build rental housing. When those expire or are all used up, they are likely to convert to condos, which usually requires a 2nd significant investment.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by pash » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:09 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:34 pm

^ I've heard about people getting steep discounts on condos in other markets by being one of the first buyers and paying cash. Is this because the developer needs to get to the 50% sold mark to allow for other buyers to enter with a conventional mortgage? Have any of the higher end condos in KC given these types of discounts on purchase?

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by pash » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:31 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by taxi » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:01 am

The threshold is 51% and it's especially difficult for small buildings to convert. Basically, the first 51% of sales need to be conventional loans (which are very difficult to get) or cash, which makes the pool of buyers pretty small in a market like ours. The restrictions are a mess and need to be reformed. Even the guys who wrote the act feel that way.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:43 pm

today:

Image

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:37 pm

yeah the market isn't the problem...it's the lending/construction.....which is why moving some of these apartments to condos could be a better lending route for the builders.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by kboish » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:39 am

Crane is up.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by flyingember » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:14 am

kboish wrote:Crane is up.
It's visible from US 71.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by NorthOak » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:32 pm

You can see it from 35 northbound also.
Looks prominent! =D>
aknowledgeableperson is currently on your ignore list.
You will no longer see any of her posts.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:06 pm

Image

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by KCLover » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:43 am

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by grecobs » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:57 am

God damn that's a pretty city. I can't wait to see a few more cranes pop up over the next few months.

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Re: OFFICIAL - ARTerra (21st and Wyandotte)

Post by flyingember » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:57 am

The first rebar and forms to go vertical are going in today.

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