KCRag Forum

KCLover wrote:

GRID wrote:There really is not a better location in the city for large tower than that spot. It's sad it's a freaking parking lot that might be a small office building in ten years. I honestly don't see Copaken ever doing anything productive with it. Somebody else needs to come in and buy the land and develop it, but KC has not quite reached the point of having major national developers come in and do towers (residential, hotel or office) and there is no corporate presence downtown to help push things along.

As long as we keep losing downtown corporate businesses to Overland Park, there won't be anyone willing to build a spec 35 story building in KC. The only way something like that happens is with a large tenant taking up multi-floors. I guess there is the weird off-chance it could be half hotel, half office with a City Target on the ground floor, but that's probably a pipedream.

You can try the build it and they will come mentality and you might pluck some businesses out of 1KC Place, etc that want trendy new office space, but then that empties existing buildings and creates another issue at which nobody wins.

No. That is probably the strategy we want to go for anyways. For example, KCPL building their own tower would then free up relatively good Class A space in 1KCP. This large amount of space would have modern finishes and be ready to go almost immediately. Then small-mid sized firms would be able to move into that pre finished downtown space. Current downtown firms moving up to nicer new buildings allows other outside firms or smaller downtown firms to move up into the unoccupied space. It's similar To the process of moving up and in that we have seen in the apartment side.

On another note, I think mixes use projects like the one we have seen so far are the best way for us to get new office space. The hotel/apartment/retail portions help to reduce the risk associated with spec office and the income from those portions helps fill gaps until the office space isn't leased out.

ldai_phs wrote:

KCLover wrote:

GRID wrote:There really is not a better location in the city for large tower than that spot. It's sad it's a freaking parking lot that might be a small office building in ten years. I honestly don't see Copaken ever doing anything productive with it. Somebody else needs to come in and buy the land and develop it, but KC has not quite reached the point of having major national developers come in and do towers (residential, hotel or office) and there is no corporate presence downtown to help push things along.

As long as we keep losing downtown corporate businesses to Overland Park, there won't be anyone willing to build a spec 35 story building in KC. The only way something like that happens is with a large tenant taking up multi-floors. I guess there is the weird off-chance it could be half hotel, half office with a City Target on the ground floor, but that's probably a pipedream.

You can try the build it and they will come mentality and you might pluck some businesses out of 1KC Place, etc that want trendy new office space, but then that empties existing buildings and creates another issue at which nobody wins.

No. That is probably the strategy we want to go for anyways. For example, KCPL building their own tower would then free up relatively good Class A space in 1KCP. This large amount of space would have modern finishes and be ready to go almost immediately. Then small-mid sized firms would be able to move into that pre finished downtown space. Current downtown firms moving up to nicer new buildings allows other outside firms or smaller downtown firms to move up into the unoccupied space. It's similar To the process of moving up and in that we have seen in the apartment side.

On another note, I think mixes use projects like the one we have seen so far are the best way for us to get new office space. The hotel/apartment/retail portions help to reduce the risk associated with spec office and the income from those portions helps fill gaps until the office space isn't leased out.

Exactly. KC needs new big blocks of office space, even if that means moving tenants out of existing office space. For example, it would be totally fine to give tax breaks to move a company from One KC Place to a new tower. Whatever it takes to get a new tower up (without going crazy of course). One KC place is still a really nice class A building. Even it became half empty because tenants left for a new tower, it would fill back up with mostly multi tenants. It's very difficult to start a new tower without a major tenant commitment and since big KC companies don't do downtown, that's never going to happen. So when an existing downtown company needs more space, the city should do everything in their power to help them build new office space rather than lease existing space. That's the only way downtown KC will ever get a new large office tower.

Once a new tower opens Downtown KC would have some nice options for relocating companies etc. The end result is more office space and more jobs. Just keeping the same amount of office space and waiting for vacancy rates to drop to 5% will never work. All the cities that overbuilt office space eventually filled it all up mostly with new jobs to their downtowns and now are in the process of overbuilding again. They will go through some down times, but in the long run, they will end up with thousands more people working downtown.

This is why I wish KC would have given KCPL incentives to build a new tower rather than lease One KC Place. That was the last time KC was in a position to get a decent sized office tower built.

I agree with everything above. I think KC would and will support a spec tower downtown, but we need a developer to build it.

Was the KCPL tower killed under funk? I wonder how long their lease is

Cerner will at one point have to build downtown. So will Garmin. And all of the other big tech companies trying to attract young tech talent. I find it interesting how they have urban offices in other cities yet pick the suburbs in KC.

GRID wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:

KCLover wrote:
As long as we keep losing downtown corporate businesses to Overland Park, there won't be anyone willing to build a spec 35 story building in KC. The only way something like that happens is with a large tenant taking up multi-floors. I guess there is the weird off-chance it could be half hotel, half office with a City Target on the ground floor, but that's probably a pipedream.

You can try the build it and they will come mentality and you might pluck some businesses out of 1KC Place, etc that want trendy new office space, but then that empties existing buildings and creates another issue at which nobody wins.

No. That is probably the strategy we want to go for anyways. For example, KCPL building their own tower would then free up relatively good Class A space in 1KCP. This large amount of space would have modern finishes and be ready to go almost immediately. Then small-mid sized firms would be able to move into that pre finished downtown space. Current downtown firms moving up to nicer new buildings allows other outside firms or smaller downtown firms to move up into the unoccupied space. It's similar To the process of moving up and in that we have seen in the apartment side.

On another note, I think mixes use projects like the one we have seen so far are the best way for us to get new office space. The hotel/apartment/retail portions help to reduce the risk associated with spec office and the income from those portions helps fill gaps until the office space isn't leased out.

Exactly. KC needs new big blocks of office space, even if that means moving tenants out of existing office space. For example, it would be totally fine to give tax breaks to move a company from One KC Place to a new tower. Whatever it takes to get a new tower up (without going crazy of course). One KC place is still a really nice class A building. Even it became half empty because tenants left for a new tower, it would fill back up with mostly multi tenants. It's very difficult to start a new tower without a major tenant commitment and since big KC companies don't do downtown, that's never going to happen. So when an existing downtown company needs more space, the city should do everything in their power to help them build new office space rather than lease existing space. That's the only way downtown KC will ever get a new large office tower.

Once a new tower opens Downtown KC would have some nice options for relocating companies etc. The end result is more office space and more jobs. Just keeping the same amount of office space and waiting for vacancy rates to drop to 5% will never work. All the cities that overbuilt office space eventually filled it all up mostly with new jobs to their downtowns and now are in the process of overbuilding again. They will go through some down times, but in the long run, they will end up with thousands more people working downtown.

This is why I wish KC would have given KCPL incentives to build a new tower rather than lease One KC Place. That was the last time KC was in a position to get a decent sized office tower built.

What is likely to happen and may already be happening is that some developers with more gusto than Copaken but lacking the deep pockets to build the big tower starts to build 5-7 story inventory. That increases vacancy rates and undermines Copaken's risk adverse philosophy making the big tower less practical and the vicious cycle starts all over. In KC, you practically need to have a company in need of 20 floors in the hand before building begins. Waiting for vacancy rates to drop will never work because smaller developers are more willing to jump in with the intermediate and small office buildings before the rates drop to something like Copaken needs to see for the bigger solution.

I disagree. I think what we and the KC Club developers see is that a small spec projects like Corrigan Station are filled with non downtown firms. Thus downtown vacancies don’t really increase. The more times KC proves 5-10 stories spec projects pay off, the more likely and more able someone is to take risk.

P.S. I am stuck in an airport terminal. Otherwise I wouldn’t be posting so much.

I've heard the original "Copaken twisty tower" is no longer a thing and something new is afoot for this parcel.

Seems odd they'd scrap that design so soon after putting out that rendering video. Thus is the design process, I suppose

TheLastGentleman wrote:Seems odd they'd scrap that design so soon after putting out that rendering video. Thus is the design process, I suppose

Could be a sign they have a real tenant(s) interested/lined up.

DaveKCMO wrote:I've heard the original "Copaken twisty tower" is no longer a thing and something new is afoot for this parcel.

Very, very early negotiations with mid-large metro company. I’d give it a 10% chance of happening. The twisty tower is basically just a placeholder when marketing. I’d anticipate it coming back until they actually land a company.

What size building if that deal actually happened?

Heard a construction firm has been lined up for a 20-30 story tower in downtown. Not the usual construction player.

Not sure if it’s for this project or not.

normalthings wrote:Heard a construction firm has been lined up for a 20-30 story tower in downtown. Not the usual player.

Not sure if it’s for this project or not.

Hmmm......................curious about the details when they come out!

3 light's incentives were formally approved last week. Could be that I suppose

kboish wrote:3 light's incentives were formally approved last week. Could be that I suppose

It didn’t sound like it

take it to the rumor page with some real deets!

KCPowercat wrote:take it to the rumor page with some real deets!

The what?

viewforum.php?f=10

Has anonymous posting available

normalthings wrote:Heard a construction firm has been lined up for a 20-30 story tower in downtown. Not the usual construction player.

Not sure if it’s for this project or not.

Could be Crown Center.

Maybe this?