13th and Grand tower

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby KCTigerFan » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:15 pm

I disagree that the P&L is buffered.  In fact, once surrounding development and streetscaping catch up to the streetscapes in the P&L it will be very well integrated into the landscape.  The south face is the only concern, but with I-670 there is very little that can be done to effectively tie that face in to the Crossroads.  That is unless the "lid" can gain favor and the highway is decked.  I would imagine with our friendly Kit Bond in DC we could get a great deal of $ from the Feds to cover it with a park and incorporate green initatives. 

Highlander wrote:One thing I noted when I was in KC was that the P&L District is a pretty well buffered area.  On the south it's bordered abrubtly by I-470, to the east by the Sprint Center, to the west by a construction zone (at least for the time being) and a development that has not yet even filled in.  To the north there are two large parking garages that separate the district from the remainder of downtown.  It's difficult to fit anything in that would create contiguous development with the area around the Transamerica building.  That might be an easy distance to traverse for downtown workers and residents but to average patron at the P&L District, it is out of sight and out of mind.  As far as creating a captive audience, Cordish has done very well.  It may be a while before we see advantages from spillover except on event nights at the Sprint Arena and even then, I understand that venues within the loop but outside the District do not do all that well. 

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby rxlexi » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:25 pm

I agree that the P&L as a whole connects well to the rest of downtown.  Impressively, even, in some cases.  However, there is no doubt that the majority of what is open now, i.e. the Live block, is almost completely inward facing and fronts Grand, Walnut and 13th with garage entrances and small, auxillary doors (the main entrances generally being inside the live block), rather than tables, patios, picture windows, etc.  This is part of what creates the festive, contained atmosphere within the block, however, which is certainly planned and has worked extremely well so far (i.e. people love it).
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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby trailerkid » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:12 pm

Go with me on this...

Wasn't the Sprint Center built almost 100% on speculation? The only known tenant was the Big XII and that surely wasn't something that would be hosted every year.

Why doesn't KC assist Copaken in putting this office tower up on speculation? Did anyone ever consider that a big reason why Sprint Prison has been landing tenants is because it has relatively new space that's immediately available? If downtown had properties immediately available that were newer and more modern than the Sprint Prison wouldn't tenants jump at the opportunity if given a competitive incentive package?

The Sprint Center was a pretty big risk, but one that's paying off. Why can't we take the same risk in constructing some of the best spec office space in the metro?

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby KCMax » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:17 pm

trailerkid wrote:Go with me on this...

Wasn't the Sprint Center built almost 100% on speculation? The only known tenant was the Big XII and that surely wasn't something that would be hosted every year.

Why doesn't KC assist Copaken in putting this office tower up on speculation? Did anyone ever consider that a big reason why Sprint Prison has been landing tenants is because it has relatively new space that's immediately available? If downtown had properties immediately available that were newer and more modern than the Sprint Prison wouldn't tenants jump at the opportunity if given a competitive incentive package?

The Sprint Center was a pretty big risk, but one that's paying off. Why can't we take the same risk in constructing some of the best spec office space in the metro?


My best guesses for why not are (1) the recession; (2) the mayor; and (3) I don't think downtown is lacking for vacancies - am I wrong about that?

Would the West Edge project fit what you're talking about?
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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby trailerkid » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:26 pm

KCMax wrote:My best guesses for why not are (1) the recession; (2) the mayor; and (3) I don't think downtown is lacking for vacancies - am I wrong about that?

Would the West Edge project fit what you're talking about?


maybe places are vacant due to the fact they're from the late 70s and 80s (i.e. Town Pavillion, City Center Square) and undesirable to upper echelon tenants. i don't see any 1980s office bulidings in JoCo competing with the Sprint Prison, yet we ask it of our modest handful of available downtown properties. it's same story with travel. we expect our 1970s hotels and airport to compete with 2005 airports and hotel packages in other cities.

just think about it like this...
if you're buying a new house are you going to buy a house from the early 80s for the same price as a house built in 2005?

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby AJoD » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:49 pm

That would piss me off if I managed Town Pavillion or City Center.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby smh » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:55 pm

trailerkid wrote:just think about it like this...
if you're buying a new house are you going to buy a house from the early 80s for the same price as a house built in 2005?




I probably would if it looked like One Kansas City Place on the outside. Just sayin'.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby KCMax » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:11 pm

trailerkid wrote:just think about it like this...
if you're buying a new house are you going to buy a house from the early 80s for the same price as a house built in 2005?


I'm not sure I get this. There are houses built in the 80s, even the 50s that sell for a lot more than houses built in 2005. If the 2005 house looks like a sprawled piece of crap, then yea, I would think you'd want the 1980s house.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:59 pm

trailerkid wrote:Wasn't the Sprint Center built almost 100% on speculation? The only known tenant was the Big XII and that surely wasn't something that would be hosted every year.


I wouldn't call it speculation, more like a well-managed gamble.  Afterall, you had revenue streams via hotel, car rental, and user fees to pay for the debt.  There was a company willing to absorb any operating losses.  And there was a reasonable expectation that the events using Kemper would use the new arena.
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby KCMax » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:12 pm

Also, SC (AEG) knew they could land concerts, which probably constitutes what 90% of their revenue? I don't think the Big 12 tourney was going to make or break the financial viability of SC. It's not fair to say it was built on a spec market. They knew what they were going to get. The Big 12 and the NBA/NHL were icing on the cake.
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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby trailerkid » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:33 pm

KCMax wrote:I'm not sure I get this. There are houses built in the 80s, even the 50s that sell for a lot more than houses built in 2005. If the 2005 house looks like a sprawled piece of crap, then yea, I would think you'd want the 1980s house.


a new, sprawled piece of crap is often a step up from a POS, totally 80s tower. the alternative, obviously, would be a kick-ass 2010 iconic address.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby KC-wildcat » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:22 am

trailerkid wrote:maybe places are vacant due to the fact they're from the late 70s and 80s (i.e. Town Pavillion, City Center Square) and undesirable to upper echelon tenants.



The buildings are old, sure.  But the interior spaces aren't late 70s and 80s.  Tenants are constantly gutting their spaces and finishing them out with modern design elements and upgrading their technology packages. 

Just because the building is 35 years old doesn't mean life stands still inside of the building.  Guys aren't sitting at their desks smoking cigars, drinking scotch, and looking at their orange shag carpet and brown, wall-papered walls. 

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:30 am

KC-wildcat wrote: Guys aren't sitting at their desks smoking cigars, drinking scotch, and looking at their orange shag carpet and brown, wall-papered walls. 




God if only we could turn back time and somehow make it socially acceptable to put on a mild buzz durring the workday again.  Social progress my ass. 

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby FangKC » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:32 am

Scotch, bourbon and martinis have been replaced by prescription drugs.

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby LenexatoKCMO » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:40 am

FangKC wrote:Scotch, bourbon and martinis have been replaced by prescription drugs.


How boring.    :x

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Re: OFFICIAL: Copaken Office Building - 13th and Grand

Postby KC-wildcat » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:46 am

scotch, bourbon, pain killers...  It's all the same to me.  I just wish unbridled sexual harassment was still acceptable, nay encouraged. 

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13th and Grand tower

Postby flyingember » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:51 am

http://www.copaken-brooks.com/src/Troph ... x?PID=1085

it's only a rendering but that would fit perfectly downtown

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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Postby Eon Blue » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:55 am

What's the story here? Is this a speculative rendering or something concrete?

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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Postby flyingember » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:08 pm

Eon Blue wrote:What's the story here? Is this a speculative rendering or something concrete?


there's a number of what look to be long-term plans on their site. everything from empty land for office to potential towers/.

my guess is it's one of those things where they have it ready so someone can say yes if that's where they want to have their business. a pretty conception is of course easier to sell

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Re: 13th and Grand tower

Postby KCMax » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:28 pm

Idea has been around awhile:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7120


Wow, remember Devin? Wonder if he ever made it as an architect/planner.


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