13th and Grand tower

[GRID]

I do quite a bit of condemnation law in my practice and have found that property owner's get, on average, about 150% of fair market value.  Its best just to overpay and let Danny find his own place. 

Exactly, I don't feel sorry for him.  We can't have a shack at 13th and Grand.  Come on, that's our CBD.  Just like haunted houses and surface lots, it's amazing that we had and still have so many extremely underutilized pieces of property so close to the center of our downtown.

I'm glad this guy stuck around downtown when the times got rough, but you can't tell me he could find a new location in the area.

Even if he can't, do we just keep the BBQ joint?, the rubber stamp company? the wigs place?  instead of building up our CBD into something that can be taken seriously?

Progress kills the little guys, I know, but we only have one downtown.

[ShowMeKC]

GRID, you might be forgetting that these small businesses are just as important as the large ones to Downtown's vibrancy.

[Highlander]

GRID, you might be forgetting that these small businesses are just as important as the large ones to Downtown's vibrancy.

Aren't you the same person that consistently argues for ever increased density (see East Village thread)?  Isn't this the same?  A single small shack vs. a 10-floor office building in the heart of the CBD?  Small BUSINESS is indeed important to downtown but that does not mean it has to exist in small BUILDINGS. 

[ShowMeKC]

I didn't mean that it has to exist in smaller buildings. I just don't think that small businesses have to be driven out of Downtown for it to be successful, and in fact, that is very likely a counter-productive thing to do.
It's just that GRID's statement made it sound like big businesses were more important. I didn't understand that he was just talking about density, and not big business vs. small business. We need a lot of density for sure, but we also need to preserve our small businesses.

Receiving the e-mail from Jon Copaken was actually pretty eye-opening for me on this project. He told me they had tried several times to relocate Danny's, however those attempts over the past few years have failed. He also said he thinks that eminent domain is a last resort, but it has been a couple years since they started pursuing this project, and all other attempts have failed.

We will just have to see how this plays out, hopefully they can work it out and keep Danny's in Downtown.

[knucklehead]

I think a good place for the barbaque joint is Barney Allis Plaza. The smell of a barbaque smoker would add a little spice to the park, and people could buy their que and sit in the park and eat. Maybe even give the place six or seven reserved parking places on the street somehow.

[KCMax]

Wow. Go Devin, I totally agree. Let's work with small businesses in small buildings instead of feeling the need to raze them to build the next big thing.

[kard]

I think a good place for the barbaque joint is Barney Allis Plaza. The smell of a barbaque smoker would add a little spice to the park, and people could buy their que and sit in the park and eat. Maybe even give the place six or seven reserved parking places on the street somehow.

Hendricks column mentioned that Danny looked in to that (after one of the folks who are wanting him gone suggested it).  Edwards said it would have cost him too much to make it work.

The big thing that bothers me is that people say to offer him a fair price.  That's not necessarily right--one needs to offer him a fair price to REPLACE it.  How much would it cost to set up a place that has as much potential as the current site?  That's what the offer needs to be for and then some.

I don't think Barney Allis Plaza has anywhere near that potential.

Plus, even those CWB says they've tried to work with him I'm skeptical.  How much have they offered?  Are they as far off as the County's $30k appraisal?  I'm not trying to judge CWB here, but they're the Big Rich Guy who's picking on the Poor Little Guy here.  The burden is on them to show they're not Evil.

[FangKC]

I thought about the empty restaurant space in Barney Allis Plaza as well. However, I'm sure Danny is worried that he'd lose a lot of his drive up takeout business there.

The Barney Allis space is a hard sell because it doesn't generate a lot of daily foot traffic, which it would need to survive.

The only thing I think could remedy that is if there were some sort of landmark or attraction in Allis Plaza that brought in tourists regularly during the day.  Then an ice cream place or refreshment stand might be able to make a go of it.

What attraction that would be is still a mystery to me.  Perhaps we should try the live women rising up out of the big fountain again like existed at Electric Park.   



Of course that would be problematic during the colder months.

Maybe the City could get ahold of Mickey Mantle's frozen head and put it in a air-tight glass head-crypt.   :P  I wonder if Buck O'Neil's head is available?   :shock: That would surely attrack a few folks.  Or we could go for the avante garde route and maybe get Hunter S. Thompson's head.  He was weird enough that he would probably have liked that.  Stick in his long cigarette filter in his mouth with some sort of glowing ember and little puffs of smoke regularly emitting from it. The City could paint a big billboard on the side of some downtown building reading: "See Hunter Thompson's Head."  It would be reminiscent of the "See the River Quay" billboard on old building near 14th and Main Street.   :lol:  Now that would be an attraction.

Then there's always Walt Disney's rumored frozen corpse.  That would have a local angle.  "Walt Comes Home."

Even better, we could engineer some sort of revolving exhibit mounting all four heads which would slowly turn on a pedestal of some type, and be lit at night. I'm sure it would be quite popular at Halloween and thousands of macabre-seeking tourists would make an annual pilgrimage here.

Afterwords, they might be in the mood for some barbeque.

[eliphar17]

I'm not trying to judge CWB here, but they're the Big Rich Guy who's picking on the Poor Little Guy here.  The burden is on them to show they're not Evil.

I think you're sort of right, but look at the other side...

At what point is the burden on Danny to show he's not being unjustifiably greedy? 150% of current value? 200% of current value? $500K? $1 million? An offer for a place in the new building?

At what point does Danny get the bad press for holding up downtown development while he tries to squeeze every dollar out of the company with deep pockets?

[aknowledgeableperson]

At what point does Danny get the bad press for holding up downtown development while he tries to squeeze every dollar out of the company with deep pockets?

Put yourself in Danny's shoes.  How would you feel?  What would be fair?  You have a great location with good business and moving may just put you out of business.  And be fair, seriously look at it from his side.  You will definitely have a different take on the situation.

[eliphar17]

Put yourself in Danny's shoes.  How would you feel?  What would be fair?  You have a great location with good business and moving may just put you out of business.  And be fair, seriously look at it from his side.  You will definitely have a different take on the situation.

Yes I do understand his side. What I'm saying is his side isn't the only side, and to call it a good vs. evil conflict of little guy vs. big business is grossly simplifying the issue. If Danny's side was the only side to this issue, then he could demand $100 million for sentimental value and be in the right. Obviously that's not the case, so I'm asking how far can he go?

[kard]

I think we're all in the right so far...because no one knows what who has offered anyone.

[GRID]

Cities are ALL about change people.  Do we progress or not?

This reminds me of the "Kansas City BBQ" place in Downtown San Diego that was recently removed to make way for condo towers .

Seriously, I have to wonder what it is you guys want.  You will not find structures like this a big city CBD.  I just can't believe it has taken this long for the land down there to become more utilized.

[warwickland]

Seriously, I have to wonder what it is you guys want.  You will not find structures like this a big city CBD.  I just can't believe it has taken this long for the land down there to become more utilized.

well...you might in areas of large CBDs that arent dominated by 1970s megaprojects and monolithic 1980s office towers...or at least in the more organic areas surrounding a CBD. in this case, i just hope that danny can again find reasonable accomodation downtown...this piece of property needs to be developed into something more substantial...although ideally something like this owuld be the LAST thing to go if at all, considering the amount of surface parking around there...

[kard]

Seriously, I have to wonder what it is you guys want.  You will not find structures like this a big city CBD.  I just can't believe it has taken this long for the land down there to become more utilized.

I want the junky shack gone but think he should get more then $60k for it.

[GRID]

well...you might in areas of large CBDs that arent dominated by 1970s megaprojects and monolithic 1980s office towers...or at least in the more organic areas surrounding a CBD. in this case, i just hope that danny can again find reasonable accomodation downtown...this piece of property needs to be developed into something more substantial...although ideally something like this owuld be the LAST thing to go if at all, considering the amount of surface parking around there...

I understand, I don't know the details of this, but the thread has a "gov/big business is out to get the little guy theme".

Give the guy 125% of "today's" value of the land, which should be high and help him relocate.  If the guy can't make that work, then the city will have to declare it blighted and take the property.

[warwickland]

I understand, I don't know the details of this, but the thread has a "gov/big business is out to get the little guy theme".

Give the guy 125% of "today's" value of the land, which should be high and help him relocate.  If the guy can't make that work, then the city will have to declare it blighted and take the property.

guess im just angry that i never got to try the bbq there!

[FangKC]

There's still time.

[Gretz]

There's still time.

I tried today.  I figured that since it was a weekday and I wasn't off working in suburban hell I would check it out.  Walked ten blocks over there.  Closed.  Walked to Cheeseheads.  Closed.  Walked back to that Chili shack across from City Hall.  Closed.  Alas, it seems I shall never experience Danny's, or any other work-schedule oriented restaurant for that matter.

[aknowledgeableperson]

then he could demand $100 million for sentimental value and be in the right. Obviously that's not the case, so I'm asking how far can he go?

I am alittle rusty on condemnation but the money value is more than just for the building and land.  There will also be the cost of moving the business, usually into something somewhat comparable.  And if the sides cannot agree on the relocation then the possibility of buying out the business comes into the picture.  So how much is the business worth?

If the project has other funds involved then those sources of funds have some strings attached and directions to follow if condemnation is required.