NDTeve wrote:
Yes kull...just another notch of incompetence..probably won't stop doing this until the study says that we don't need a convention hotel.
Oh well, no biggie. What's another 500 grand, right?????
I guess if you fork out enough free money and do it enough times, eventually you can pay someone to tell you what you want to hear.
"The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
MidtownCat wrote:"The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
Welcome to Funkytown.
Or Microsoft Windows.
"It is not to my good friend's heresy that I impute his honesty. On the contrary, 'tis his honesty that has brought upon him the character of heretic." -- Ben Franklin
aknowledgeableperson wrote:
You seem to be implying that this study is only because of the Funk. Given his dynamic leadership of the council and how they follow right behind him on every issue, well .....................................
In reality this study was not just for the Funk but for the rest of the very independent city council. It is quite amazing that you focus all of your negativity of city government towards the Funk but forget the rest of the council has at much at fault as him. So if you wish to pick on the Funk go ahead but don't forget the rest of the council.
Oh believe me, I haven't forgotten about the council itself. Let's just say that at 4am its a little faster to type "Funk", rather than individually list all those boneheads...and...it conveys the same point.
What's graciously given to KC, is strong for the region as a whole. Passion and benevolence will one day exeem towards all whom know true adoration. We shall triumph to better the community as One within THINK (ONE) KC.
moderne wrote:
Hopefully, maybe this study will be done and given some stamp of approval to the project so that the NEXT administration can run with it.
You know, there Was a study done during the Barnes era....where'd those results take the following administration?
Can we say..."New" study?
There should come a point in time that our mayors office, and city coucil realize that they are the most inept representitives of a government (local, state, or federal) in the entire United States of America. Its time we realize that these kind of things don't routinely happen outside of Cowtown Kansas City.
What's graciously given to KC, is strong for the region as a whole. Passion and benevolence will one day exeem towards all whom know true adoration. We shall triumph to better the community as One within THINK (ONE) KC.
In the 1990s, St. Louis expanded its convention center and built a new domed stadium. Hotel visits remained flat. A 1,000-room convention hotel opened in downtown St. Louis in 2003; in its first year, the hotel checked in fewer visitors who paid less money for their rooms than had been anticipated. In February, it was sold on the steps of a courthouse.
It will take 200-300 million in public financing to build the hotel.
While I think KCMO desperately needs a hotel and I really like the idea of using the P&L tower and block, where would the city get the money to do it? Tourism taxes in KCMO are already off the charts.
There is probably going to be one more time the city will be able to raise that kind of cash through tourism type taxes and I really think the city should spend the money to BUILD A STARTER LIGHT RAIL LINE BETWEEN THE CITY MARKET AND THE PLAZA.
Then build a hotel...
Do a transportation tax in the RCP and raise 250-300 million to build a starter line without a citywide vote (that will never ever pass).
Then go to voters to expand the LRT line.
Urban core transit should be KCMOs top priority right now. Nothing else should even come close.
The city will get so much more bang for its buck with a RCP LRT line than a hotel. Crown Center hotels would be a LRT stop away till they get a new hotel built.
The hotel business stinks right now. Reportedly 20 percent of all hotels in the US are close to defaulting on their debt. Revenue per room night is way down.
The hotel industry will rise again, but it is going to take a couple of years.
Once the economy comes around, the city should be able to do a deal that involves an economic cost to the city in the $30 to $40 million range. That would basically involve structuring the deal to allow the debt to be tax exempt and buying insurance against the risk of default. If the insurance can not be purchased at a reasonable price, then the deal will not get done.
No one knows what the market will charge for that product two or three years from now.
knucklehead wrote:
the city should be able to do a deal that involves an economic cost to the city in the $30 to $40 million range.
That is a wish, a pipedream. In the real world it will probably be more, much more than that. And that will be the scary part, how much is the city is willing, ready, and able to devote to this project. KCMO's finances will be hurting for a long time and the general fund will not be able to absorb another sizable hit to finance projects it either wants or needs to have.
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:
...finances will be hurting for a long time and the general fund will not be able to absorb another sizable hit to finance projects it either wants or needs to have.
That doesn't seem to stop Obama...what makes you think the "Funk" is any different?
What's graciously given to KC, is strong for the region as a whole. Passion and benevolence will one day exeem towards all whom know true adoration. We shall triumph to better the community as One within THINK (ONE) KC.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Also, the feds do not have to have a balanced budget, the city does.
But LA gets to write IOU's...I don't buy it..
What's graciously given to KC, is strong for the region as a whole. Passion and benevolence will one day exeem towards all whom know true adoration. We shall triumph to better the community as One within THINK (ONE) KC.
Don't know about LA but the State of CA is writing IOU's instead of check's. However those IOU's become redeemable at the start of CA's fiscal year and are paid with a 5% annual interest rate. Some of the larger banks are accepting these IOU's from their account holders and then will redeem them come Oct 1 (I believe that is the date of the state's fiscal year) and the bank will collect the interest with the account holder getting paid the face value of the IOU at the time of deposit. I understood CA was doing this mainly with income tax refunds instead paying routine bills as a way of managing cash flow.
What this means is that the state is paying this fiscal year's bills with next fiscal year's money. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The city can do that too by issuing warrants instead of checks for the paying of bills but at some time cash has to be paid out.
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
aknowledgeableperson wrote:
That is a wish, a pipedream. In the real world it will probably be more, much more than that. And that will be the scary part, how much is the city is willing, ready, and able to devote to this project. KCMO's finances will be hurting for a long time and the general fund will not be able to absorb another sizable hit to finance projects it either wants or needs to have.
What the heck are you talking about. Show me one city that has put a true subsidy of over $75 million in a convention hotel? What makes you think KC will have to pay double or triple what other cities pay?
And please focus on real economic costs, not playing games with bond numbers.
The marriot subsidy has been nothing close to the figures you suggest.
The cost of the Marriott is far less than what a new, 1,000 room convention hotel will cost at some point in the future and it is has been reported in the past that the expected cost to the city will be substantial. What that amount will be who knows but expect it to be high.
REAL ECONOMIC COSTS are numbers that are determined by many different people using many different methods. Even a slight adjustment to the money turnover multiplier can generate a big difference in dollars over a 5 to 10 year period. And, of course, many might use any convention that takes place after the hotel is built to help boost the "real economic revenues" but who is to say if the convention would not have come to KC with or without the new hotel.
Playing games takes place when one considers "'real' economic costs" instead of focusing on numbers one cannot adjust to suit one's side of an argument. Bond numbers are real. Economic costs are subjective and therefore subject to discussion and dispute and are massaged to support one idea over another.
I may be right. I may be wrong. But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
What a idiot you are for a knowledgeable person!! You speak in generalities as if you have an agenda. Personally I would like to see KC succeed for a change without encumberances from a negative blowhard like you who continue to badger anyone who has ambition. I have seen cities like Mobile, AL and Nashville, TN and Atlanta, etc, etc, etc, grow despite anti growth idots like you who are very afraid to spend a dime to make a dollar. You sir are full of it. I have read your posts and you are always very persuasive but very vague!! You cite examples but like your latest post they are very limited. Basically you are just imposing your position again and personally, I am sick of you holding back KC. You are personally responsible.
hubert wrote:
What a idiot you are for a knowledgeable person!! You speak in generalities as if you have an agenda. Personally I would like to see KC succeed for a change without encumberances from a negative blowhard like you who continue to badger anyone who has ambition. I have seen cities like Mobile, AL and Nashville, TN and Atlanta, etc, etc, etc, grow despite anti growth idots like you who are very afraid to spend a dime to make a dollar. You sir are full of it. I have read your posts and you are always very persuasive but very vague!! You cite examples but like your latest post they are very limited. Basically you are just imposing your position again and personally, I am sick of you holding back KC. You are personally responsible.
+1
Now what's scary is to think of what you have to say to me 8)
What's graciously given to KC, is strong for the region as a whole. Passion and benevolence will one day exeem towards all whom know true adoration. We shall triumph to better the community as One within THINK (ONE) KC.
