downtown loop rebuild

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by Midtownkid »

Turning the North Loop into a "Parkway" would be a good step. Put it at grade, add two or more stop lights (Grand, Broadway, Main?) Slow down the traffic there, improve the looks of the roadway, and eliminate the need for ramps. Think Westside Highway in NYC
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by GRID »

It's amazing that everybody on there is on the same page and most here don't have any urban planning background (I'm guessing). But Modot as well as city and state planners have zero clue and the only thing they are thinking about when it comes to redesigning the loop is moving cars.

This is basically what MoDot wants to do with the downtown loop. None of it is going away (like most here think should happen). Actually, they want to add more ramps to each corner of the loop and add CD lanes to the north loop. While the north loop is a traffic cluster fuck by todays highway design standards with too many short on an off ramps etc and could use a redesign, in reality it really needs to just go away or be converted to a parkway and the interstates need to be routed to the south loop. This is something the city should be pushing because MoDot is not in the urban planning business, but the state is only in the business of moving traffic. The city needs to step up here and give Modot some direction.

Anyway, here is the future downtown right now...

Image
User avatar
Midtownkid
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
Location: Roanoke, KCMO

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by Midtownkid »

what do the different colors represent? Do you know? which things are new?
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by GRID »

Midtownkid wrote:what do the different colors represent? Do you know? which things are new?
The blue is new/widen/rebuild. The red is existing. You can see where they would remove most of the flyover stuff at Route 9 and replace it with at grade intersections as part of the CD/system. Like I said, all of which needs to be done, but they could route interstate traffic across the south and east loop actually quite easily. It would even simplify things for through traffic for those wanting to stay on 70 or 35.

The North loop and Lewis and Clark Viaduct would be a really nice parkway type corridor. That would be a real nice way to connect kcmo and kck with a nice greeway and bike/ped infrastructure and tie the city to the rivers etc.
IraGlacialis
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by IraGlacialis »

Highlander wrote:That said, I kind of like travelling on the Intercity Viaduct, it gives a bit of perspective to the bottoms that you do not get from anywere else and is on of the last places in KC where you get that mid 20th century industrial feel.
While the L&C viaduct, as a roadway, should still be removed, I always thought it would be better to keep the structure itself intact. This way, it would be converted to something along the lines of the NYC High Line.
With something as big as the viaduct, you can not only have a nice park to walk along, but bike trails as well. Granted, there are some parts of that stretch that would leave much to be desired (water treatment plant, jail, atc)
If there is a desire to still directly connect DT KCK with DT KCMO, a simple two lane road down the middle (which would merge into the "Independence Pkwy") should suffice. Of course, there should be a way to keep the speed considerably slower than what is expected of an unbroken stretch of road.

As for the former pace that 35/70 occupied, if it becomes a park, I don't see any real need to make the space level. If it is to have trails and such in it, keeping it the way it is would allow said trails to continue without a need to cross streets. Also, such a terrain would probably be good to host performances, with slopes for people to sit along.
If some people don't want to walk down and up, spiff-up and widen the bridge sidewalks, convert that rail/trolley(?) overpass into a pedestrian bridge, and put an pedestrian bridge/deck or two at optimal spaces.
Slap a large pond and creek down the middle for good measure.


For HOA/Oak Traffic-way, remove the ramps and turn that interchange into a large traffic circle (connecting Locust Ln, Independence, Cherry, and 6th). Keep the center open to allow light in and continue the park along until at least Charlotte.

With interchange removed (turned into a simple on/off ramp) at 71, at least one block east of Charlotte could easily be developed, which would end up connecting Columbus Park with the central loop.

My though on untangling the interchange and converting into the simple on/off-ramp configuration: keep the southbound on-ramp and northbound off-ramp at Admiral, convert the on-ramp at Troost into an off-ramp, have Forrest go past Independence into a northbound on-ramp (an aparment or two may have to be demolished in the process of the last one), and erase that off-ramp/one way street going into the corner of Independence and Forest. With that, Troost can likely be reconnected and that whole section between Independence and Admiral can be decked.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by flyingember »

we want to keep the viaduct even if dropped in speed.

you need it if the bottoms ever floods again.

it's a good KCK to KCMO route. it would be perfect for a busway or one side could be converted into a rail path again with a pedestrian aspect and keep the other side as a street.
longviewmo
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:58 am
Location: Manhattan, Kansas
Contact:

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by longviewmo »

flyingember wrote:
you need it if the bottoms ever floods again.
Why? 670 is elevated.

Ripping out 70 all along there to the meetup with 670 would get rid of that horrible mess that is 70/3rd/James/Fairfax/Minnesota/whatever I'm leaving out. That would open up some good land for KCK to develop.
shaffe
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2420
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:51 pm
Contact:

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by shaffe »

GRID wrote:
Midtownkid wrote:what do the different colors represent? Do you know? which things are new?
The blue is new/widen/rebuild. The red is existing. You can see where they would remove most of the flyover stuff at Route 9 and replace it with at grade intersections as part of the CD/system. Like I said, all of which needs to be done, but they could route interstate traffic across the south and east loop actually quite easily. It would even simplify things for through traffic for those wanting to stay on 70 or 35.

The North loop and Lewis and Clark Viaduct would be a really nice parkway type corridor. That would be a real nice way to connect kcmo and kck with a nice greeway and bike/ped infrastructure and tie the city to the rivers etc.
Red is existing? That whole damn map is blue!
ThaMexican
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:56 pm

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by ThaMexican »

Oh man if blue is planned are they going to have a highway exit that goes directly to th ePerformance Arts Center? If so that is way bad? How can we protest against this design ?
shinatoo
Ambassador
Posts: 7394
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by shinatoo »

ThaMexican wrote:Oh man if blue is planned are they going to have a highway exit that goes directly to th ePerformance Arts Center? If so that is way bad? How can we protest against this design ?
Looks like the one you are referencing replaces the existing one that's a block north on Broadway.
loftguy
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3850
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by loftguy »

flyingember wrote:we want to keep the viaduct even if dropped in speed.

you need it if the bottoms ever floods again.

it's a good KCK to KCMO route. it would be perfect for a busway or one side could be converted into a rail path again with a pedestrian aspect and keep the other side as a street.
Do not mess with this shortcut to El Camino Real!
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by flyingember »

that modot map isn't half bad for what they want to do. it's a good start
kboish
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3258
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by kboish »

is there a credible timetable for those proposed changes or is that just a place holder plan that was made with no funding?
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by flyingember »

kboish wrote:is there a credible timetable for those proposed changes or is that just a place holder plan that was made with no funding?
there's zero funding. roughly the loop to 435 is next in line.
User avatar
KCMax
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 24051
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm
Location: The basement of a Ross Dress for Less
Contact:

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by KCMax »

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by flyingember »

I saw something interesting when I was on 670 related to this discussion

I wonder how a cap would work physically
currently all the signs need minimum clearance for vehicles. rather basic but for that to happen they have to stick above the street level of Truman Road.

I'd be intrigued how a cap could work together with signage requirements.
User avatar
smh
Supporter
Posts: 4306
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by smh »

CAP CAP AND ALSO LOWER THE ROADWAY JUST A SMIDGE THE LOOP!
User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4132
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by chaglang »

Maybe something like this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-exp ... 012-5?op=1
(Scroll down to #10)

Essentially: long, skinny signs.
droopy
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:59 pm

Re: downtown loop rebuild

Post by droopy »

chaglang wrote:Maybe something like this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-exp ... 012-5?op=1
(Scroll down to #10)

Essentially: long, skinny signs.
Ha, the Big Dig. Great end product but...."It was completed 10 years late and because of design flaws and leaks the builder had to pay $407 million in restitution. It won't be paid off until 2038."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/most-exp ... z2JUx4rjNR
Post Reply