Amenities missing from downtown

[flyingember]

re-read what he said. you are right we need more bike trails and lanes like are shown in the pictures and to have better marked connections between the ones we do have but to say there's nothing is false.

[chingon]

it's not the cost of putting in a trail or painting but all the associated work.

It is probably the cheapest and least labor-intensive infrastructure improvement imaginable. Add to that the fact that those medians are city owned, totally unused, and would not take away "precious" traffic or parking lanes, and I can't see a drawback.

Plus, it doesn't really take reinventing the wheel. Bike and pedestrian street crossings are common all over, so its pretty reasonable to assume they are, in fact, possible to execute. Crossings could just as easily be routed to the curbside of a median even if the majority of the trail runs down the center, although given the propensity of drivers (here and elsewhere) to turn without yielding to pedestrians waiting to cross in the crosswalk, it may well be that a center-crossing is safer. I don't know, but certainly the data is out there and can be applied to KC as easily as it can to Madison, Minneapolis or Milpitas.

[Demosthenes]

Agreed that bike lanes are much, much needed. I really like the look of what Philly's doing in those pictures Grid. Those bike lanes stand out, and I think that would be important in Kansas City.

Also, it's interesting you didn't see any other bikers on your 2 hour bicycle adventure. It really seems like a lot more people are biking these days. Almost every time I hit the streets downtown I see at least one cyclist, and there's even more in midtown. After being in both downtown and midtown almost every day the past couple years, I definitely feel like the amount of cyclists is growing. A comprehensive bicycle lane system would be a major hit here, no doubt.

[flyingember]

it's not the cost of putting in a trail or painting but all the associated work.

It is probably the cheapest and least labor-intensive infrastructure improvement imaginable. Add to that the fact that those medians are city owned, totally unused, and would not take away "precious" traffic or parking lanes, and I can't see a drawback.

Plus, it doesn't really take reinventing the wheel. Bike and pedestrian street crossings are common all over, so its pretty reasonable to assume they are, in fact, possible to execute. Crossings could just as easily be routed to the curbside of a median even if the majority of the trail runs down the center, although given the propensity of drivers (here and elsewhere) to turn without yielding to pedestrians waiting to cross in the crosswalk, it may well be that a center-crossing is safer. I don't know, but certainly the data is out there and can be applied to KC as easily as it can to Madison, Minneapolis or Milpitas.

I'd bet planting a tree takes less time. in terms of a city, they're infrastructure as they require maintenance.

a trail in a street median requires a cut through and concrete work at every intersection and a long cut the length of the trail for either gravel or asphalt.

on any street with a median you can turn left without yielding too so that danger is still there.

I still like the idea regardless.

there's an interesting thing for one trail like that (the trolly track trail). because the KCATA owns it, not the city.

[GRID]

Agreed that bike lanes are much, much needed. I really like the look of what Philly's doing in those pictures Grid. Those bike lanes stand out, and I think that would be important in Kansas City.

Also, it's interesting you didn't see any other bikers on your 2 hour bicycle adventure. It really seems like a lot more people are biking these days. Almost every time I hit the streets downtown I see at least one cyclist, and there's even more in midtown. After being in both downtown and midtown almost every day the past couple years, I definitely feel like the amount of cyclists is growing. A comprehensive bicycle lane system would be a major hit here, no doubt.

I'm being 100% honest here. We did not see another soul. I was taking photos of KC and I always try to get buses, taxis, bike etc in the shots and my son was in all of them because there was nobody else. And this was in the heart of the all star activities. (there were a few people walking around bartle etc). Now it was nearly 100 degrees, but that's just no excuse. I have spent a ton of time this summer alone in places that are not used to anything near that hot and it was that hot there too. (philly, boston, dc, etc) and the bike lanes and trails are so busy in those towns that you can't stop on them without getting run over, even when it's 95 degrees.

Enroute to and from KC, we stopped and biked in Nashville, Columbus and Indianapolis. I take my camera with me on the bike.

Those three towns have built incredible bike lanes bike trails throughout their urban cores and riverfronts that are very busy and well marked and well connected to each other. It was hot as hell in Columbus and Indy and even Nashville and there were just a ton of people out and about from early morning till very late at night on the trails, parks etc. There could be nothing actually gong on in the city, but the cities still feel lively and vibrant because people are out and about. The entire time we were in KC, we were just wondering where everybody was at. If there is not something going on that brings people downtown in their cars, then there is nobody down there. My son could not understand why KC felt so desolate and he told me then that he didn't want to move back to KC because his words "nobody does anything here".

So my point is that yea, I'm sure it's getting better. But I also think that KC is probably like very close to dead last when you compare it to the top 50 or even 75 cities.

I really hope people take this as constructive criticism and don't just get pissed off that I'm saying this, but I think this is one thing the city seriously lacks and is now so far behind other cities that it's difficult to comprehend the city ever catching up. Kind of like transit, but only worse. Transit in KC is not that bad and has been improved and is usable and doable. It's not Denver transit or anything and never will be, but the bike lanes and urban recreation thing is so far into the future there that I just don't know what to say.

Don't have to go far to get some ideas. Omaha, Des Moines, Tulsa are all good places to at least go take a looky. Places like Denver, Philly, DC, Minneapolis are just not even possible. KC doesn't have that kind of regional leadership.

[IraGlacialis]

Do you travel at all? If you did, you would know what I'm talking about. This is something that just does not exist in KC. I would say St Louis is a close second, the only reason they are any better than KC is because they have Forest Park, one of the most active urban parks in the country. But their downtown may be worse than KC.

With the rivers, the boulevards, penn valley park and the lack of traffic on the arterial streets (plenty of room for bike lanes), KC could have one of the most comprehensive systems in the country and I'm confident that if such infrastructure existed in KC, it would be used, just like it's used in every other city.

I have never been a fan of developing the river front commercially, because It think it would take away from much needed infill development (crossroads, east downtown etc), but it's just flat out silly that there are not trails along the levees, that there is not some sort of well connected pedestrian bridge over the MO and KS rivers (not half baked jersey barriers thrown on existing bridges with no connections at ends). Penn Vallye should be the place to be. I have always LOVED kcpowercat's idea of connecting the two halves of PV Park with overpasses over Broadway. Grand, Main, Broadway etc, one of them should have a well thought out and designed bike lane. Not just some random paint and a few signs but a real bike lane that goes more than 500 feet. You should be able to ride from water works park in nkc to Waldo without ever leaving a well marked lane/trail and you should be able to leave the grid and use off road trails in PV Park, Bearkly park, Kaw Point etc that are well connected to each other and theirfore have tons of users all the time.

Building upon that, I am surprised that there isn't strong enough push to extend the Katy Trail into KC. With enough negotiation, I am sure that it would be possible to set aside just one of the rails to turn into a trail all the way to the riverfront. Then connect that trail to bike lanes in the city. I know that at the very least, a dedicated bike lane along Main or Broadway would do a lot alleviate anger/concerns on both sides.

As for other amenities, an electronics and popular furniture store (IKEA maybe?). It's dismaying to see a lot of people, who would otherwise be urban-oriented, going all the to Nebraska FM to get stuff. Hell, put in such a store and use it to anchor a mall (I'm thinking that gigantic space on Grand north of Sprint Center).

[KCPowercat]

Urban recreation is great but even with the best biking in the world downtown, what percentage of the population is going to use it, 15%? I agree it should be on the list but there are things higher in my mind....like doughnut shops (thats a joke)

[kboish]

re-read what he said. you are right we need more bike trails and lanes like are shown in the pictures and to have better marked connections between the ones we do have but to say there's nothing is false.

My point was that in comparison to other cities (both peer, larger, or smaller) we do not have any where near what could be considered an urban biking trail/path system...ie we have NO trail network DT. If you brought someone from most other cities and showed them the "trails/paths" you spoke of as our system they would laugh at you.

The good news is I see this changing in the near(?) future. Its just that, as always we will be a decade behind most (maybe all?) other cities. What will then seem new, exciting, and flashy to us is/will be seen as a basic amenity to the rest of the country.

[mgh7676]

The KC area in general has very good biking/hiking trails. I recently talked to a man visiting KC from Memphis who had nothing but great things to say about Mill Creek Streamway Trail. He mentioned that Memphis just built their first trail, which was only 6 miles long (compared to Mill Creek's 15 miles).

That being said, there really aren't any options for downtown besides the Riverfront Trail. Could dedicated bike lanes be included in the new Grand Street beautification plans? You would think places like Crown Center, Washington Square Park and City Market would all benefit from being alongside the only major urban bike trail in KC. It would be even more amazing if the trail continued down Gillham Rd (and parks), went through UMKC's campus, and met up with the Trolley trail. UMKC students would be able to bike from main campus to the proposed Arts campus.

[taxi]

The KC area in general has very good biking/hiking trails. I recently talked to a man visiting KC from Memphis who had nothing but great things to say about Mill Creek Streamway Trail. He mentioned that Memphis just built their first trail, which was only 6 miles long (compared to Mill Creek's 15 miles).

A man came to KC from Memphis and enjoyed the Mill Creek Streamway Trail in Olathe. Maybe that's what is missing from downtown... Olathe.

[warwickland]

Grid, there are a lot of new bike lanes in st. louis and biking has really picked up but I agree, KC and St. Louis are pretty far behind Minneapolis and it shouldn't be that way. The fractured political climate in Missouri and not to mention the "Kansas Problem" is stifling.

i guess i'm out of the loop, does KC has a single organization in charge of bringing bike trails under one regional umbrella?

Here's the St. Louis equivalent that is at least a start to bringing the fractured trail system together (it's still way off from Minneapolis).

http://www.grgstl.org/

[mgh7676]

The KC area in general has very good biking/hiking trails. I recently talked to a man visiting KC from Memphis who had nothing but great things to say about Mill Creek Streamway Trail. He mentioned that Memphis just built their first trail, which was only 6 miles long (compared to Mill Creek's 15 miles).

A man came to KC from Memphis and enjoyed the Mill Creek Streamway Trail in Olathe. Maybe that's what is missing from downtown... Olathe.

To be exact, it was in Shawnee! Just saying, in general, the metro area has some very nice biking trails. Unfortunately, none of these trails are very urban, and instead are used as a means of exercising or getting out into "nature". Traffic is never really to the point where I feel unsafe on a bike downtown, but if there were designated bike trails, I would definitely ride more often (especially if they cut through the city as opposed to on the "fringe").

[warwickland]

Here's a pretty awful and old twin cities bike trail "map."


http://www.tcgreenways.org/wp-content/u ... ails-1.jpg

point being that you have a higher chance of actually commuting to downtown st. paul or minneapolis on a trail, even from a suburb. let's not kid ourselves when it comes to the importance of having off street trails as part of living in a modern, livable region. and of course minneapolis has some pretty kick ass heavily used "bike boulevards" that lace in between the trails and st. paul has tons of basic bike lanes.

[kboish]

The KC area in general has very good biking/hiking trails. I recently talked to a man visiting KC from Memphis who had nothing but great things to say about Mill Creek Streamway Trail. He mentioned that Memphis just built their first trail, which was only 6 miles long (compared to Mill Creek's 15 miles).

A man came to KC from Memphis and enjoyed the Mill Creek Streamway Trail in Olathe. Maybe that's what is missing from downtown... Olathe.

To be exact, it was in Shawnee! Just saying, in general, the metro area has some very nice biking trails. Unfortunately, none of these trails are very urban, and instead are used as a means of exercising or getting out into "nature". Traffic is never really to the point where I feel unsafe on a bike downtown, but if there were designated bike trails, I would definitely ride more often (especially if they cut through the city as opposed to on the "fringe").

I don't think the discussion is about whether or not the metro has nice hiking trails, but if downtown (and the river/crown/plaza as a whole) has a well connected street biking system connected to trails and to get around the city in general. The answer to that is no. Though I agree I never have a problem getting around the city on the bike its not meant for people like me...its for those who aren't currently biking (it also shows people how to get to some of the other trails and amenities around the city). It would be an amenity that would add great value to the area.

I'd agree that the surrounding hiking trails and whatnot are nice. No argument there, other than they could be better connected (via intercity bike routes )

So as not to wholly focus on the biking thing (b/c i agree there are other things DT could use) I think I'd also like to have a really nice downtown Y. I hope that happens and is in the loop...i've heard its being contemplated in the crown center area.

I also would love to have a zip line to the west bottoms. priorities, ya know.

[FangKC]

There is a new pedestrian and bike trail coming that will connect Cliff Drive in the Old Northeast to the River Market.

Pedestrian trail to connect Cliff Drive to City Market
August 29, 2012

http://northeastnews.net/pages/?p=14389

[shinatoo]

Why do you need trails when you have all those empty downtown streets to ride on?

[GRID]

Why do you need trails when you have all those empty downtown streets to ride on?

Detroit has empty streets too. You don't get it, but that's okay. I think it's kind of obvious that KC in general doesn't get this.

I think this is more of a city wide issue than something that downtown residents may put as a priority as kcpowercat says, but still, KC is really missing the boat here and it seriously takes away from the vibrancy of the city in my personal opinion.

Even freaking OKC is building quite an impressive urban core bike trail system, plus they are developing quite an impressive kayaking community and infrastructure (which I know is not really possible in KC).

It's just one of my personal priorities of a city, I know it doesn't interest some people.

[GRID]

The KC area in general has very good biking/hiking trails. I recently talked to a man visiting KC from Memphis who had nothing but great things to say about Mill Creek Streamway Trail. He mentioned that Memphis just built their first trail, which was only 6 miles long (compared to Mill Creek's 15 miles).

A man came to KC from Memphis and enjoyed the Mill Creek Streamway Trail in Olathe. Maybe that's what is missing from downtown... Olathe.

Memphis may not have a lot of suburban trails, but they have some really nice comprehensive and very popular urban trails along the river that go quite a ways and connect neighborhoods to the north and south of downtown to together.

[GRID]

Here's a pretty awful and old twin cities bike trail "map."


http://www.tcgreenways.org/wp-content/u ... ails-1.jpg

point being that you have a higher chance of actually commuting to downtown st. paul or minneapolis on a trail, even from a suburb. let's not kid ourselves when it comes to the importance of having off street trails as part of living in a modern, livable region. and of course minneapolis has some pretty kick ass heavily used "bike boulevards" that lace in between the trails and st. paul has tons of basic bike lanes.

Yea, and the katy trail is VERY nice out in St Charles and it connects up to some great trails in west county. StL has Forest Park which is amazing. I think it's time for StL to redo the riverfront though and make is more user friendly for recreation.

[Demosthenes]

Why do you need trails when you have all those empty downtown streets to ride on?

Because, if everything goes as planned, those downtown streets won't be so empty in 10 years. Should we plan for the past or the future? Kansas City may have had a few rough decades but the future is bright my friend. This is a cheap, easy thing to implement and probably better to do now instead of waiting until riding downtown is a problem. And it is already sort of a problem through parts of midtown, especially during rush hour. What if you could ride a bike comfortably down Broadway at 5 pm without drivers freaking out? Pretty nice I think.