Make Grand Grand

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
flyingember
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by flyingember » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:51 am

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:
kboish wrote:And Broadway through Penn Valley was closed for what? a month? no one even noticed.
Wrong. Traffic has been terrible with Broadway closed. 31st west of Main and Main north of 31st have been in gridlock with the construction.
I don't go through this area during rush hour but I can add that people on Reddit have certainly bitched about it quite a bit.
Ugh, the general pessimism and negativity of that group is why I gave up on it.

Not sure I would listen to much anyone posting there about infrastructure related items

TheBigChuckbowski
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by TheBigChuckbowski » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:37 am

flyingember wrote:
TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote: Wrong. Traffic has been terrible with Broadway closed. 31st west of Main and Main north of 31st have been in gridlock with the construction.
I don't go through this area during rush hour but I can add that people on Reddit have certainly bitched about it quite a bit.
Ugh, the general pessimism and negativity of that group is why I gave up on it.

Not sure I would listen to much anyone posting there about infrastructure related items
I generally agree. However, there's a difference between bitching because you have to drive three blocks out of your way and bitching because it created gridlock that added a decent amount of time to your commute. Not sure if they were exaggerating and the second wasn't actually happening but that seemed to be the consensus.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by scooterj » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:38 pm

I work at 30th & Main and had to go through this construction area twice a day. At worst, it added maybe 30 seconds to my commute. It was easy to avoid the congestion by simply not going where all the other cars were going. As for 31st, and Main north of 31st, those have always been gridlock during rush hour. Backs up to the Federal Reserve and beyond every day in the afternoon rush. It was doing this long before the Broadway closure and it still does it now.

By the way, Broadway has been open for a week and a half so people complaining about gridlock in the present tense in the past few days are talking about the normal everyday traffic pattern.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:56 pm

There is just zero traffic in KC...especially downtown and the urban core...I guess that's where I'm confused about all the fretting about losing a lane for other uses ?

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beautyfromashes
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:10 pm

KCPowercat wrote:There is just zero traffic in KC...especially downtown and the urban core...I guess that's where I'm confused about all the fretting about losing a lane for other uses ?
Because I can see very soon where we have a population downtown similar to Denver's, approaching 90K people.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:13 pm

It may take up to 10 years for downtown KC to hit 35K, maybe 5 if momentum picks up more than now. Depends on area you are talking. The Loop's population is still very low compared to highly functional downtowns.
Last edited by earthling on Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:14 pm

I can see your point.....don't want to overcorrect the other way too much....

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:18 pm

KCPowercat wrote:There is just zero traffic in KC...especially downtown and the urban core...I guess that's where I'm confused about all the fretting about losing a lane for other uses ?
What is interesting about downtown traffic and all in the current time is how light it truly is. Look at the old pictures of downtown before 1950. Just about every daytime shot the streets are loaded with vehicles, and people.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:09 pm

Image

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FangKC
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by FangKC » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:50 am

Robert Moses once said: "Cities are created for traffic and by traffic. A city without traffic is a ghost town."

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by DaveKCMO » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:09 pm

about the bridge redesign: http://www.eldo.us/17182/grand-boulevard-redux/

still no rebid for the bike lanes...

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by hartliss » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:33 am

DaveKCMO wrote:about the bridge redesign: http://www.eldo.us/17182/grand-boulevard-redux/

still no rebid for the bike lanes...
I don't understand the bidding/re-bidding. Sounds like the initial bids came in way to high so they put it back out for bid?! If there is that much of a gap between the bid and the city's budget, wouldn't one think that requirements from the city were poorly defined in conjunction with the budget provided?

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by flyingember » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:44 am

Thoughts

poorly budgeted- maybe in the years since planning began the market went up that much
Modot- maybe they won't accept certain companies and they were quietly dropped
Bad timing, like the city wants it done June to Aug and no one else could do it then
Poorly communicated out to companies that might bid so they didn't know
Designed so only certain companies can bid. Like if they want a certain kind of paint and only certain equipment can lay it down
Political reasons. Maybe one company could do it for cheap but chose not to bid because of bad experiences with the city
Too small- maybe some companies would bid if it was more money, a tight margin for company Y means overages kill any profit for project under $x
Requirements issues- like companies don't like the hours available to work or some other operations rule
Paperwork issues- like maybe some companies that can't get a cash bond needed for the work due to bad credit

The Go Bond articles are pointing out the city has trouble finding enough money to do everything at once for any given project. So I can see how the scale is reducing interest in projects. Maybe if it was 10x as much painting there would be more places interested and that would drive prices down.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by hartliss » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:57 am

flyingember wrote:Thoughts

poorly budgeted- maybe in the years since planning began the market went up that much
Modot- maybe they won't accept certain companies and they were quietly dropped
Bad timing, like the city wants it done June to Aug and no one else could do it then
Poorly communicated out to companies that might bid so they didn't know
Designed so only certain companies can bid. Like if they want a certain kind of paint and only certain equipment can lay it down
Political reasons. Maybe one company could do it for cheap but chose not to bid because of bad experiences with the city
Too small- maybe some companies would bid if it was more money, a tight margin for company Y means overages kill any profit for project under $x
Requirements issues- like companies don't like the hours available to work or some other operations rule
Paperwork issues- like maybe some companies that can't get a cash bond needed for the work due to bad credit

The Go Bond articles are pointing out the city has trouble finding enough money to do everything at once for any given project. So I can see how the scale is reducing interest in projects. Maybe if it was 10x as much painting there would be more places interested and that would drive prices down.
Kind of a shame when you think about it at a high-level. Just looking to build some bike lanes not an interstate.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by flyingember » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:33 am

I've always thought the city should stop doing per-project work for some of this and instead get a company on the books for all painting work.

They get 100% of painting jobs with renewal options for a few more years with some defined increase until either side decided not to renew or the term ends. In return the city gets a bulk deal on any paint work needed and a maximum waiting time.

Could do a fixed contract plus cost per linear mile painted.

So when Grand needs bike lanes the city knows exactly how much it will cost and this company will get the work. The city is encouraged to plan and paint quickly because next year it will cost more. It's also encouraged to find the "plus" money to do more painting that needs to be done with a sunk cost.

The company is encouraged to do it quickly and minimize mistakes because they don't get paid for mess-ups and this will keep road closures and peak hour painting to a minimum.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:38 pm

1. It does happen a few times when bids come in higher than expected and budgeted. The budget wasn't wrong, it's just that the bidding companies may have other business and submit a high bid not expecting to win. Costs may also have had a sudden increase, especially with materials.

2.When the city enters into a contract funds have to be identified in order to encumber. For a multi-year contract it is really a one year contract with so many years of renewal. At times the city does do this but at the same time the contracting party may not be willing to have a multi-year agreement for whatever reason.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:08 pm

back out to bid in october. the west bottoms/beardsley pieces will be priced separately so at least the "loop" part could proceed if bids come back too high for the whole thing again.

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Midtownkid
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by Midtownkid » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:49 pm

All the projects my firm is putting out to bid lately are coming back really high.

Construction is booming here. The companies are being less competitive. :-/

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by cdm2p » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:05 pm

flyingember wrote:I've always thought the city should stop doing per-project work for some of this and instead get a company on the books for all painting work.

They get 100% of painting jobs with renewal options for a few more years with some defined increase until either side decided not to renew or the term ends. In return the city gets a bulk deal on any paint work needed and a maximum waiting time.

Could do a fixed contract plus cost per linear mile painted.

So when Grand needs bike lanes the city knows exactly how much it will cost and this company will get the work. The city is encouraged to plan and paint quickly because next year it will cost more. It's also encouraged to find the "plus" money to do more painting that needs to be done with a sunk cost.

The company is encouraged to do it quickly and minimize mistakes because they don't get paid for mess-ups and this will keep road closures and peak hour painting to a minimum.
There is a set of multi-million contracts for paving. That's where the best opportunity lies. Identifying the streets to be paved and evaluating whether bike facilities can be added. you can supplement the paving budget with money for bicycle markings, and voila: you have new paved streets with new markings. The current approach gives us new markings on old pavement. there's no wow effect.

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Bill Durban
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by Bill Durban » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:18 pm

Grand Avenue Bridge scheduled to reopen Friday!

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