Make Grand Grand

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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grovester
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by grovester » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:46 pm

It's only busy for an hour a day and also because it's overbuilt. Shrink it and add protected lanes, plenty of room.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:01 pm

Think long term. Grand and Broadway should take brunt of N/S car traffic. Main for streetcar of course. Walnut and Baltimore are perfect candidates for N/S bike lanes. Bike lanes on very busy streets with car traffic can be worse than biking down with no official bike path because official lanes can provide a false sense of security yet still cars whizzing through not paying attention to cyclists. With slower streets like Walnut, bike lanes work much better.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by DaveKCMO » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:04 pm

oak/broadway - cars
main - streetcar
grand/11th/12th - buses
charlotte/grand - bikes
wyandotte/baltimore/walnut/mcgee - people

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by pash » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:21 pm

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earthling
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:23 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:oak/broadway - cars
main - streetcar
grand/11th/12th - buses
charlotte/grand - bikes
wyandotte/baltimore/walnut/mcgee - people
Most Gilham car traffic from midtown dumps into Grand. Brookside Blvd/Main Midtown traffic dumps into Grand and Main (and many drivers now choose Grand coming from Midtown Main not wanting to deal with CBD Main St single lane). I don't see how Grand through downtown can be anything other than major N/S trafficway for cars long term, especially as long term Midtown population likely to increase. Bike lanes simply inappropriate for Grand, opposite of common sense. Walnut is perfect for bike lanes.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by DaveKCMO » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:20 pm

earthling wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:...especially as long term Midtown population likely to increase.
there's no data that indicates midtown population will increase. there might be more cars, but not more people.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by flyingember » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:49 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
earthling wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:...especially as long term Midtown population likely to increase.
there's no data that indicates midtown population will increase. there might be more cars, but not more people.
You can't prove a negative. So there shouldn't be any data saying something won't happen.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:06 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
earthling wrote:...especially as long term Midtown population likely to increase.
there's no data that indicates midtown population will increase. there might be more cars, but not more people.
Am talking long term. As Downtown/Plaza rents go up, Midtown will start to look more attractive. Armour Blvd is a start.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:31 pm

My brother in Williamsburg (Brooklyn) just sent this to me today. New 48 slot bike station, note the one way street for cars and dedicated bike lane. This seems ideal for Walnut.

This is streetview of Google Maps before made into dedicated bike lane...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7202796 ... 56!6m1!1e1

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by pash » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:34 pm

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earthling
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:39 pm

Sarcasm noted but one N/S stretch through downtown could use that and Walnut is ideal. Grand should not have a bike lane, just asking for more fatalities.

Here's that stretch before turned into bike lane...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7202796 ... 56!6m1!1e1

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by pash » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:25 pm

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grovester
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by grovester » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:32 pm

I'm going to guess that since KC implemented one way streets as they did, that your plan would be way to jarring. Better to revert them to two way and calm them. Maybe some day we'll be ready for your plan.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by DaveKCMO » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:40 pm

people turn the wrong way onto one-way streets all the time. that alone is a reason to undo them, in addition to almost all of our streets being sufficient width for two travel lanes and on-street parking. why make navigating the city more difficult?

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by pash » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:34 pm

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grovester
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by grovester » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:15 pm

Build the grid for the city you have. Maybe if you had a city where all streets are one way? My experience says one ways are a bummer.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:28 pm

The only two streets that should be one way are Baltimore and Walnut.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by beautyfromashes » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:13 pm

I don't understand all the road diet talk. Do we expect the city to stay at the same population for the next several years? Instead of cutting the flow to the current level of traffic, keep it in place for when the city gets back to the population that these roads were built for originally. Adding bike lanes is a positive step, but cutting entire arteries into and out of the city seems destructive.

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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by flyingember » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:57 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I don't understand all the road diet talk. Do we expect the city to stay at the same population for the next several years? Instead of cutting the flow to the current level of traffic, keep it in place for when the city gets back to the population that these roads were built for originally. Adding bike lanes is a positive step, but cutting entire arteries into and out of the city seems destructive.
So you're saying to wait until the entire east side is repopulated?

earthling
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Re: Make Grand Grand

Post by earthling » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:20 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I don't understand all the road diet talk. Do we expect the city to stay at the same population for the next several years? Instead of cutting the flow to the current level of traffic, keep it in place for when the city gets back to the population that these roads were built for originally. Adding bike lanes is a positive step, but cutting entire arteries into and out of the city seems destructive.
I generally agree but if there are going to be dedicated bike paths, do it on Walnut downtown - just one N/S downtown stretch, not freakin Grand.

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