UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

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beautyfromashes
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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:29 am

shinatoo wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:03 am
Moving Rockhurst out of the area won't add 10k students to UMKC. Those kids won't transfer because Rockhust moved.
Correct. I looked up the Rockhurst enrollment. They only have about 3k students. So, wouldn’t increase UMKC numbers even if everyone transferred. It would provide additional facilities, including sports fields not provided at UMKC currently and would give room for expansion. I guess the question is which would provide more benefit to the campus and city if the funding costs were the same: spending millions on a Conservatory at the old Westport HS location or the purchasing of existing university facilities that are part of the Rockhurst campus. Of course, this is under the caveat that they would be willing to sell. I can’t imagine a college with only a few thousand students could be highly successful financially.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by shinatoo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:42 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:29 am
shinatoo wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:03 am
Moving Rockhurst out of the area won't add 10k students to UMKC. Those kids won't transfer because Rockhust moved.
Correct. I looked up the Rockhurst enrollment. They only have about 3k students. So, wouldn’t increase UMKC numbers even if everyone transferred. It would provide additional facilities, including sports fields not provided at UMKC currently and would give room for expansion. I guess the question is which would provide more benefit to the campus and city if the funding costs were the same: spending millions on a Conservatory at the old Westport HS location or the purchasing of existing university facilities that are part of the Rockhurst campus. Of course, this is under the caveat that they would be willing to sell. I can’t imagine a college with only a few thousand students could be highly successful financially.
I think it's a great idea.
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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by rxlexi » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:50 am

I’d love to see the largest KC university be similar to Louisville or Cindy.
Ha! There are a very few of us that have been saying the same thing for years. However, there seems to be zero desire on the part of the city, state, university (most importantly) or really anyone anywhere towards making this happen.

IMO, has to start with a name change. Branding. Sports. Have to build more housing on campus, and develop campus into a semi-desirable "place", not commuter school (slight efforts have been made here with new Student Union, 51st St). Campus location is perfect, and has several solid schools/academic amenities to build on.

But without widespread desire to push towards a higher ceiling, I assume UMKC will remain an afterthought as most local kids immediately head KU/KSU/MU.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by TrolliKC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:51 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:29 am
shinatoo wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:03 am
Moving Rockhurst out of the area won't add 10k students to UMKC. Those kids won't transfer because Rockhust moved.
Correct. I looked up the Rockhurst enrollment. They only have about 3k students. So, wouldn’t increase UMKC numbers even if everyone transferred. It would provide additional facilities, including sports fields not provided at UMKC currently and would give room for expansion. I guess the question is which would provide more benefit to the campus and city if the funding costs were the same: spending millions on a Conservatory at the old Westport HS location or the purchasing of existing university facilities that are part of the Rockhurst campus. Of course, this is under the caveat that they would be willing to sell. I can’t imagine a college with only a few thousand students could be highly successful financially.
I know you said highly financially successful, which I am not sure about for private, not-for-profit colleges. I do know that many colleges have only a few thousand students, even in the KC area. For example Avila has enrollment of 1,676, Benedictine has 2,249, Baker has 1,144 and William Jewell has 992. All these are affiliated with a religious organization of some kind so I imagine they measure success in many different ways. Rockhurst continues to invest in their campus including building a couple of small row student housing on Forest Ave this year, so I cannot imagine they would even consider a sale.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by kcjak » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am

Why would a small, private school sell land to UMKC when they (Rockhurst) are also burdened with the same lack of available land? Small private colleges like Rockhurst typically have significant endowments and operating budgets and higher tuition than larger public universities. That doesn't mean they aren't highly successful financially, even if they are not-for-profit. Ever hear of Duke, Rice, Gonzaga, Tulane, etc.?

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by shinatoo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:06 am

TrolliKC wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:51 am
beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:29 am
shinatoo wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:03 am
Moving Rockhurst out of the area won't add 10k students to UMKC. Those kids won't transfer because Rockhust moved.
Correct. I looked up the Rockhurst enrollment. They only have about 3k students. So, wouldn’t increase UMKC numbers even if everyone transferred. It would provide additional facilities, including sports fields not provided at UMKC currently and would give room for expansion. I guess the question is which would provide more benefit to the campus and city if the funding costs were the same: spending millions on a Conservatory at the old Westport HS location or the purchasing of existing university facilities that are part of the Rockhurst campus. Of course, this is under the caveat that they would be willing to sell. I can’t imagine a college with only a few thousand students could be highly successful financially.
I know you said highly financially successful, which I am not sure about for private, not-for-profit colleges. I do know that many colleges have only a few thousand students, even in the KC area. For example Avila has enrollment of 1,676, Benedictine has 2,249, Baker has 1,144 and William Jewell has 992. All these are affiliated with a religious organization of some kind so I imagine they measure success in many different ways. Rockhurst continues to invest in their campus including building a couple of small row student housing on Forest Ave this year, so I cannot imagine they would even consider a sale.
Jewell no longer has a religious affiliation.
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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by flyingember » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:33 am

TrolliKC wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:51 am
I know you said highly financially successful, which I am not sure about for private, not-for-profit colleges. I do know that many colleges have only a few thousand students, even in the KC area. For example Avila has enrollment of 1,676, Benedictine has 2,249, Baker has 1,144 and William Jewell has 992. All these are affiliated with a religious organization of some kind so I imagine they measure success in many different ways. Rockhurst continues to invest in their campus including building a couple of small row student housing on Forest Ave this year, so I cannot imagine they would even consider a sale.
They don't come out and say it, but Jewell is all about providing a program that focuses on a small number of students. So the size of the campus really doesn't matter because they're not in it for the raw numbers.

Not every school needs or wants tons of space.

Jewell has it too, they could put in a dozen more buildings easily and add a couple thousand students to campus.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:38 am

kcjak wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:55 am
Why would a small, private school sell land to UMKC when they (Rockhurst) are also burdened with the same lack of available land? Small private colleges like Rockhurst typically have significant endowments and operating budgets and higher tuition than larger public universities. That doesn't mean they aren't highly successful financially, even if they are not-for-profit. Ever hear of Duke, Rice, Gonzaga, Tulane, etc.?
I’m suggesting they sell their entire campus precisely because of the shortage of available land. They could receive a very large amount of money that they could use for purchase or construction of a new campus in a location in the metro of their choosing. This has been done by other catholic schools including St Thomas Acquinas which moves to Johnson County. I’m sure the same could be done for a college. It actually might be easier compared to moving kids to to a different HS location. Instead of two colleges battling it out for neighborhood land and tearing down houses, this would allow full expansion as part of consolidation.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by shinatoo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:25 am

Almost rather see them purchase the MRI Global property and build the performing arts campus there.
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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by longviewmo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:35 am

I was going to suggest across the creek from Nelson Atkins, then realized that was the MRI Global property haha.

Don't think we have to worry about William Jewell becoming a big player, their accreditation is currently on probation.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by GRID » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:16 pm

I never quite understood the push to move the conservatory downtown. KC desperately needs a large, thriving urban university campus/district. Build it at the UMKC campus and stop building suburban low rise apartment buildings for housing and go up higher with more density instead. Build out UMKC.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by flyingember » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:22 pm

GRID wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:16 pm
I never quite understood the push to move the conservatory downtown.
The idea was to utilize existing downtown theaters for the school rather than need to build this kind of space.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by anonkcmo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:40 pm

GRID wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:16 pm
I never quite understood the push to move the conservatory downtown. KC desperately needs a large, thriving urban university campus/district. Build it at the UMKC campus and stop building suburban low rise apartment buildings for housing and go up higher with more density instead. Build out UMKC.
That's a better idea than using old Westport High.

The original idea was to take UMKC Arts to another level and compete with schools like Berkley (Boston) and The New School (NYC).
The prestige, urban location, energy and inspiration of those schools has made them first choice among the best and brightest talent.
UMKC's arts programs have finally developed world class talent and a new, more urbane and high profile location and campus design would have provided the energy to take UMKC to the highest level and put it on the map. This is exactly why the old Westport location defeats that purpose completely. UMKC appears to have completely abandoned that vision.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by WoodDraw » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:30 pm

How does this align with the original plan? I know our old governor messed it up, but how can you think the current plan on the old plan have any semblance?

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by anonkcmo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:29 pm

This whole debacle reminds me of how UMKC School of Law once had a plan to buy and convert the old Federal Courthouse (811 Grand) that had all of the lush courtrooms, research library and study rooms and move the school there. They eventually abandoned the plan.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by TheLastGentleman » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:08 pm

flyingember wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:22 pm
The idea was to utilize existing downtown theaters for the school rather than need to build this kind of space.
Seems like the Lyric would be the perfect building for something like that, but instead it's being bulldozed

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by rxlexi » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:46 pm

I mean the whole point of this, initially, was to be within short walking distance of the Kauffman Center to develop a symbiosis kind of like Lincoln Center/Juliard. Develop a performing arts/cultural neighborhood, of sorts. Elevate the program with a top notch new facility next to ground zero for the performing arts in KC.

Not sure I understand how moving off campus anywhere outside of a block or two from Kauffman PAC gets to the heart of the initial idea?

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by missingkc » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:31 pm

Very sad. Very disappointed in the new Chancellor. This isn't leadership - it's capitulation. Gives the impression that he has no self-confidence.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:50 pm

I think the larger benefit even than the synergy with the PAC (which is a big plus) is the hundreds of students that would be riding streetcar everyday from one campus to another. Students who would stop on Main St to grab lunch or coffee or retail. Having the campus DT is the only location that would have that happen. Every other spot would just add more car traffic.

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Re: UMKC Conservatory of Music considers move to downtown

Post by FangKC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:55 pm

anonkcmo wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:29 pm
This whole debacle reminds me of how UMKC School of Law once had a plan to buy and convert the old Federal Courthouse (811 Grand) that had all of the lush courtrooms, research library and study rooms and move the school there. They eventually abandoned the plan.
If I recall, that plan was also done in by the law school faculty who didn't want to come downtown.

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