More debate on Downtown's boundaries

Post by **dangerboy** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:05 pm

Northland city councilmember Bonnie Sue Cooper has proposed including part of the Northland in the definition of Downtown used for MODESA funding. Her proposal would extend the definition of downtown all the way north to Vivion Road. Her argument is that if we are going to expand the definition of Downtown beyond the Loop, then part of that area should be across the river. She says she will drop the proposal if a narrower definition is used that only goes as far south as Truman Road.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/s ... ily17.html

While I think Vivion Road is by no means part of even the most liberal interpretation of the "Greater Downtown" concept, I do see her point. MARC already classifies this north-central area as part of the urban core, and lately it seems that the downtown's boundaries keep getting expanded to include more of the urban core that really isn't part of downtown itself.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:48 pm

Yea, but Vivion Road?

I can see NKC being "part of downtown" for political reasons and since that is a different city, lets just assume that going north makes little sense.

Why dilute this anymore than it is now? Bank of America left Downtown for Vivion Road remember, it's more suburban than most parts of KCMO as far south as 435.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:45 am

sounds like she's just politicing to get the southern boundary further north than 31st.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:58 am

I certainly don't think of the Northland (or Vivion Rd specifically) as economically depressed or a "blighted area" in need of economic stimulation. The intent of Modesa was to reinvigorate economically depressed urban neighborhoods and downtowns, which have suffered because of the flight of business to the suburbs. Modesa is intended to help pay for infastructure and redevelopment of urban neighborhoods--not as "pork" for the suburbs.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:02 am

Large portions of the eastside are truly blighted and they deserve to get MODESA money long before any goes to the Northland. Asking for money to be spent in areas that aren't blighted--when that's what MODESA money is for--is nothing short of greed. Neighborhoods like the eastside have been ignored for decades. Those eastside residents have paid taxes all during those decades and gotten little back in redevelopment money compared to all the other economic benefits that the suburbs get (TIF money for example; new highway and road construction). In addition to that, the City spends money creating infastructure and more urban sprawl in the Northland while older urban neighborhoods are ignored and left to rot.

For example, the City and KCATA created a bus shelter and bathrooms at the mass transit center across from Walmart on Barry Road (the Boardwalk I think it's called) that will require perpetual funding for maintenance and upkeep. I've never seen anyone using that facility. In contrast, there are vast areas of the inner city (on the more highly utilized routes) that have NO bus shelters--must less bathrooms). Elderly and poor people who use the buses must stand in the rain and snow in the winter while suburbanites, who rarely use public transportation have shelters and bathrooms.

Boognish · Post by **Boognish** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:13 am

What about Riverside? That's a pretty economically depressed, blighted area.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:36 am

I could see classifying the Downtown Airport and the Harlem area as part of downtown, those are both north of the river yet I consider myself to be downtown when I am at either. But Vivion? Give me a break.

Post by **dangerboy** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:24 pm

Boognish wrote:What about Riverside? That's a pretty economically depressed, blighted area.

Huh? How do you figure that? They have pretty much rebuilt the entire city with casino money from the Argosy. And they are just finishing a new levee that will open up hundreds of acres of flood plain for a giant office/commercial development.

Post by **bahua** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:01 am

I have a feeling he was kidding, or thinking, as I do, that sprawl is equivalent to urban blight.

paisstat · Post by **paisstat** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:45 am

Sprawl has caused urban blight in Kansas City and others. Downtown does NOT go north of the river. North Kansas City (which is a seperate municipality) Would more likely be deemed urban than the areas as far north as vivion. Kansas City North, which is everything within the polictical boundaries of Kansas City, within Clay and Platte counties is suburban and is in no way blighted. They are theproblem that has created the blight by leaving, they should bennefit from no program.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:07 am

scooterj wrote:I could see classifying the Downtown Airport and the Harlem area as part of downtown, those are both north of the river yet I consider myself to be downtown when I am at either. But Vivion? Give me a break.

He shoots, he scores!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 665425.htm

Posted on Fri, Jan. 09, 2004

Downtown boundaries set for tax incentives
By MIKE RICE
The Kansas City Star

Downtown Kansas City's boundary for new state tax incentives now stretches north of the Missouri River, but not as far as one Northland councilwoman wanted it to go.

[...]

The boundaries include Wheeler Downtown Airport and Harlem, a secluded community between the airport, the river and North Kansas City. The rest of the downtown district is roughly bounded by the river on the north, State Line Road on the west, Linwood Boulevard on the south and Cleveland Avenue on the east.
[...]

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:13 am

good call scooter.

I like the boundaries. Little bigger than traditional sense of downtown but nothing too large to throw up red flags to the state.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:03 pm

I like the fact that they added the downtown airport, and the Harlem neighborhood. It will give the city the resources to improve both areas as needed, and its not too far from the actual downtown.

Post by **staubio** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:12 pm

What are the boundaries of the Harlem neighborhood and/or exactly how do you get there? I'd like to check it out as I haven't actually been there. I've passed under 169 from the airport and frolicked, but there wasn't much of a neighborhood there. I have a lot of exploring left to do.

Yet another biked based excursion with my GPS in tow so I can see where I went when I return.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:50 pm

staubio wrote:What are the boundaries of the Harlem neighborhood and/or exactly how do you get there? I'd like to check it out as I haven't actually been there. I've passed under 169 from the airport and frolicked, but there wasn't much of a neighborhood there. I have a lot of exploring left to do.

What you likely saw was pretty much about it. You go under 169 from the airport heading east on Harlem Road. There's an abandoned (I think) motel, a few small ramshackle occupied homes, a church, and a few industrial buildings and warehouses.

At the end of Harlem Rd. you have to turn left onto Grand, which takes you into another more built-up industrial area and several sets of railroad tracks. If you drive through here and are unlucky you can sometimes get stuck in-between sections of tracks while excruiciatingly slow-moving trains pass and sometimes come to a complete stop. As you continue north-northeast on Grand it turns north again and becomes Atlantic and enters North Kansas City.

The southern end of Harlem, which is now where the very small residential area is near the river, could indeed be a really cool place for some office towers. (Residential towers probably couldn't work there due to all the train and airport noise unless they were very well sealed to block out such noise.) However the access problem is an issue, since the northeast entrance to the area is often blocked by trains. Harlem Road does give direct access to 169, as does Richards Rd. in several places, so at least that's an option for access.

Post by **dangerboy** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:46 am

The law says you can define up to 10% of your city as a downtown area for Modesa purposes, which means over 30 square miles for a behemoth city like KC. But it also includes other rules like the age and condition of buildings.

It's just good to finally have the boundary issue settled so we can move on and start using the Modesa incentives. And Cooper's point should be remembered - the older north-central portion of the Northland is facing many of the same early blight issues as other inner suburbs and needs some special attention BEFORE it gets any worse.

carfreekc · Post by **carfreekc** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:32 pm

scooterj wrote:
staubio wrote:What are the boundaries of the Harlem neighborhood and/or exactly how do you get there? I'd like to check it out as I haven't actually been there. I've passed under 169 from the airport and frolicked, but there wasn't much of a neighborhood there. I have a lot of exploring left to do.
What you likely saw was pretty much about it. You go under 169 from the airport heading east on Harlem Road. There's an abandoned (I think) motel, a few small ramshackle occupied homes, a church, and a few industrial buildings and warehouses.

I went through there last weekend. The old motel looks like maybe it's apartments or something now. I didn't see any signs with a name or phone number, but there were a lot of cars parked there, so there are obviously people there. Wonder what the deal is with it.