Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:58 am

yes, urban core population decline -- including the "good areas" is a huge issue for the school district and the city. KCPS can't hide from it, but the city shuffles around by growing unsustainably up north.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby flyingember » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:49 am

DaveKCMO wrote:yes, urban core population decline -- including the "good areas" is a huge issue for the school district and the city. KCPS can't hide from it, but the city shuffles around by growing unsustainably up north.

The guess is it will take 20 years for Second Creek to gain 20,000 homes, on top of everything else being built right now. A council district today is around 78k and the development underway in the northland could exceed 100,000 people.

think about what that means for political power on the council alone.

I won't argue good vs bad but a city with 300,000 south of the river and 170,000 north is very different from one with 270,000 north and 250,000 south

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby loftguy » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:45 pm

kboish wrote:I am certainly no expert on schooling, but I don't believe I have seen anywhere that people are saying KCPS are underfunded ......


The argument against abatement remains pretty focused on 'the taking of funding from schools and libraries'.

A google search on Kansas City Public schools and tax abatement will provide plenty of examples.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby kboish » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:21 pm

Right, i'm with you. And that's why I said they're making an argument that its not fair that the council is allowed to "take" that money, with some people suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to take that money. This as opposed to people saying the district doesn't have enough money to adequately fund itself (an argument being made in KCK against the state).

We are saying the same thing.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby flyingember » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:18 pm

This was the proposed KC Schools budget for 2015-16
$220,474,595
14696 students
15002 per student

KCK Schools
$352,018,946
23,795 students
14793

This was the NKC Schools 2015-16 proposed budget
$269,526,871
18,674 students
14433 per student

Let's say that they all pay the lowest of the three numbers per student, KCK is paying 2.5% more than NKC per student and their cut was 0.625% of that number.

You can see where the state's argument comes from and how you can make the argument that abatements of the amount over the old value really doesn't really hurt a district like KC. That it should be possible to be successful with less money.

Reality is messier than that but I understand the case being made for incentives not hurting a district.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby grovester » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:26 pm

My question would be, if a big project came on line without abatements, do the districts automatically get a slice without showing need? Is there no budgetary process? What would they do with the money? The whole conversation is nutty and short sighted.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby loftguy » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:43 pm

grovester wrote:My question would be, if a big project came on line without abatements, do the districts automatically get a slice without showing need? Is there no budgetary process? What would they do with the money? The whole conversation is nutty and short sighted.



That wrong is coupled with refusal of some tax entities to recognize benefits of collaborative community 'investment' to bring up the city and the school district through judicious use of incentives.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:09 am

"However, Jackson County and the KCMO school district make me remember the finesse used by the mob in extorting funds from businesses."

Isn't it the other way around? The developer and city taking potential tax revenues away from the other jurisdictions to put into the developer's pockets.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby WinchesterMysteryHouse » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:43 pm

mgh7676 wrote:
pash wrote:
mgh7676 wrote:Talking with some friends over the weekend, it sounds like Golden Ox may be coming back to their original location and sharing the space with the Stockyards Brewing Co. people. Interesting if true!

The Biz Journal article on the apartment project confirms that the Golden Ox is coming back, citing Bill Haw.


Grandma's Bar also has new owners that are planning on redoing the space. The details are a little fuzzy (too many drinks at the Ship), but it sounded like it would stay pretty divey.


Lucky Boys will be the name of the bar in the former Grandma's Bar space. 'Divey,' yes, but a cultivated dive. Some Westport lifers and art dudes are in charge. Think 70's motorcycle cults, pool hall babes, contemporary trustafarian dirtbaggery. A stabbing or two would enhance the vibe.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby DaveKCMO » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:34 pm

WinchesterMysteryHouse wrote:
Lucky Boys will be the name of the bar in the former Grandma's Bar space. 'Divey,' yes, but a cultivated dive. Some Westport lifers and art dudes are in charge. Think 70's motorcycle cults, pool hall babes, contemporary trustafarian dirtbaggery. A stabbing or two would enhance the vibe.


great post? Or GREATEST post?

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby shinatoo » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:56 am

So Grandmaw's, the bar Esquire named one of the best in the midwest is closing. Disappointing.
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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby kcjak » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:28 pm

mgh7676 wrote:Talking with some friends over the weekend, it sounds like Golden Ox may be coming back to their original location and sharing the space with the Stockyards Brewing Co. people. Interesting if true!


It's true! Golden Ox coming back courtesy of the Voltaire folks

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/cityscape/article48477820.html

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby mgh7676 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:16 pm

Judging from the FB page, the Lucky Boys space will look pretty great. Excited for a new place to drink in WB.
https://www.facebook.com/Lucky-Boys-1659892430924006/?fref=ts

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby brewcrew1000 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:33 am

Is it just mean or doesn't Lucky Boys sound like a male strip club? Even the font they use looks strip clubish

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby flyingember » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:48 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:Is it just mean or doesn't Lucky Boys sound like a male strip club? Even the font they use looks strip clubish


their font? look at their images on Facebook.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby mgh7676 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:52 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:Is it just mean or doesn't Lucky Boys sound like a male strip club? Even the font they use looks strip clubish

My girlfriend said the exact same thing.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby WSPanic » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:03 am

So, is it still largely a gay bar, or is it just a general dive? The name confuses me.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby grovester » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:20 am

Are we looking at the same page? I don't see anything that looks "great" posted. Or anything particularly gay except perhaps the word "boy" written in cursive. While Lucky Boy may have some connotations, one of the previous posts mentioned trustafarian, so maybe that's the spin.

They do get full props for having Alice featured so prominently on their page though.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby WSPanic » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:53 am

I was asking because of 1) the name and 2) the two previous bars in same building were gay bars.

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Re: Why Can't the West Bottoms Be Redeveloped....?

Postby grovester » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:01 pm

Sorry, that wasn't necessarily directed toward your comment.


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