Making downtown more pedestrian friendly

[DaveKCMO]

Here is the very professional response from the city:
I tried one of the new ped. walk signals today, you just have to touch them then a red light and beep to acknowledge you have pushed it...I assume an ADA requirement.

that's funny, because the one's they installed at the other intersections not six months ago are the old red button style.

[cdm2p]

I said it before . . . traffic engineers have ruled this town for far too long.

[KCPowercat]

I said it before . . . traffic engineers have ruled this town for far too long.

Are they in Funk's Axis of Evil or is that just developers and "elite" members of the parks and board?

[DaveKCMO]

Are they in Funk's Axis of Evil or is that just developers and "elite" members of the parks and board?

think about the actual chain of command.

[KCPowercat]

I see what you did there, but as was stated earlier, traffic engineers have ruled this city for decades....Cauthen has been here how long?  So saying get a new director of public works maybe?

[cdm2p]

I see what you did there, but as was stated earlier, traffic engineers have ruled this city for decades....Cauthen has been here how long?  So saying get a new director of public works maybe?

Yeah, no kidding.  Cauthen has pushed for streetscape and wants downtown to be more pedestrian friendly more than any other manager since the 80's.  The public works department, as usual, stands in the way.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Yeah, no kidding.  Cauthen has pushed for streetscape and wants downtown to be more pedestrian friendly more than any other manager since the 80's.  The public works department, as usual, stands in the way.

Well, considering that Cauthen is over the PW Dept the above says one of two things.  One, he either can't control those who are under him (afterall the PW director works directly for him and is employed at-will) and therefore he is not a good City Manager.  Or two, PW is doing exactly what he tells them to do.

Of course, the city council controls the purse strings so we have a downtown streetscape and is as pedestrian friendly as they want it to be, going back even before your 80's.

[scooterj]

Who can we write to to lodge a complaint about the new signals?

Since I normally walk on a green light automatically I didn't really notice the change until after I read this thread.  Then this morning I was walking down Main and stunned to notice that when I got to 12th when the light turned green it still said "DON'T WALK".  That's just asinine.    I mainly noticed because the people in front of me didn't start walking, and only did so after I circled around them and crossed.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Who can we write to to lodge a complaint about the new signals?

Since I normally walk on a green light automatically I didn't really notice the change until after I read this thread.   Then this morning I was walking down Main and stunned to notice that when I got to 12th when the light turned green it still said "DON'T WALK".   That's just asinine.    I mainly noticed because the people in front of me didn't start walking, and only did so after I circled around them and crossed.

Its really asinine in the xroads where many of the intersections don't see that heavy car traffic in the first place.  You push the button thinking there might be some sort of signal priority.  Wait a minute of two for it to change.  Then realize the button did nothing and there still isn't any traffic comming for blocks so you might as well just jaywalk.  And then feel like a rube for not just jaywalking in the first place. 

[cdm2p]

Well, considering that Cauthen is over the PW Dept the above says one of two things.  One, he either can't control those who are under him (afterall the PW director works directly for him and is employed at-will) and therefore he is not a good City Manager.  Or two, PW is doing exactly what he tells them to do.

Of course, the city council controls the purse strings so we have a downtown streetscape and is as pedestrian friendly as they want it to be, going back even before your 80's.

I get it AKP.  You don't think Cauthen is a good city manager.  He is better than any previous ones and better than any Funkhouser could hire.

But this is not about Cauthen.  This is about PW.  The insinuation that Cauthen directs the engineers to be assholes is laughable.  Asshole 101 is a basic course in engineering school that is used to weed out unsuitable candidates.  Dumbshit 201 comes after that.

Are you an engineer?

[aknowledgeableperson]

Nope.  But as CM Cauthen is responsible for those under him and those engineers are under him.  So, if he can't tell them what to do then he shouldn't be a CM.

So, yes it is about Cauthen. 

[KCPowercat]

So its your opinion the CM should be an expert in every field and start dictating how his staff runs any day to day operations?  Are you living in the same world as us?

Listen, this issue is obviously passing you by. I have no doubt there is good 'best practices' basis for how the new lights operate concerning pedestrian lights. I also believe more focus should be given to pedestrians in a highly walked area. Hopefully the pedestrian and bike advisory committee can make inroads here. Its a fairly simple change.

[aknowledgeableperson]

So its your opinion the CM should be an expert in every field and start dictating how his staff runs any day to day operations?  Are you living in the same world as us?

No, he doesn't have to be the expert and never said he had to be.  All he has to do is give orders.  He tells the director of PW what he wants and then the director tells the staff to comply.

Evidently he walks around dt often enough and I assume he takes his fair share of notes.  He goes back to CH and tells those below what he would like to be done.  It has happened in the past on other subjects with other CM's and will happen in the future.  And that is not running day-to-day operations but giving guidance.

[cdm2p]

No, he doesn't have to be the expert and never said he had to be.  All he has to do is give orders.  He tells the director of PW what he wants and then the director tells the staff to comply.

Evidently he walks around dt often enough and I assume he takes his fair share of notes.  He goes back to CH and tells those below what he would like to be done.  It has happened in the past on other subjects with other CM's and will happen in the future.  And that is not running day-to-day operations but giving guidance.

Here's where we go back to the crux of the issue.  He can tell staff whatever he wants but the traffic engineers will usually pull up tons of tech-speak to justify why the pedestrian needs to be screwed for the benefit of the almighty car.  Traffic engineering is a sophisticated discipline.  There is a lot of science and research behind it.  Traffic engineers are like disciples.  They do not question the dogma, they simply follow it.
Other cities have been able to push the envelope but, as we all know, Kansas City ain't like other cities.  We are 20 years behind.
Wayne Cauthen can't do anything about Kansas City's love for traffic engineers and the status quo.  It's hard for him to attract people who can push the envelope.  Keep in mind that KC probably has more engineers per capita than any other city.  Is there any doubt as to the reason why creativity and common sense always give way to rigid standards?
Traffic engineers are the problem, not Wayne Cauthen.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Traffic engineers are like disciples.  They do not question the dogma, they simply follow it.
Other cities have been able to push the envelope but, as we all know, Kansas City ain't like other cities. 

I would think that this kind of change would have to start at the academia side of traffic engineering.  What sort of degree programs does a traffic engineer go through?  Surely some universities would be the place to foster a more progressive approach to this science? 

[loftguy]

I know many of you already know this, but prepare for the nay-sayers on this forum who will lose their nut when Wayne Cauthen fires the head of public works, amongst many others.

[Tosspot]

I would think that this kind of change would have to start at the academia side of traffic engineering.  What sort of degree programs does a traffic engineer go through?  Surely some universities would be the place to foster a more progressive approach to this science? 

Kind of related to urban planning in some universities actually. Not all though I'm sure.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Here's where we go back to the crux of the issue.  He can tell staff whatever he wants but the traffic engineers will usually pull up tons of tech-speak to justify why the pedestrian needs to be screwed for the benefit of the almighty car.  Traffic engineering is a sophisticated discipline.  There is a lot of science and research behind it.  Traffic engineers are like disciples.  They do not question the dogma, they simply follow it.
Other cities have been able to push the envelope but, as we all know, Kansas City ain't like other cities.  We are 20 years behind.
Wayne Cauthen can't do anything about Kansas City's love for traffic engineers and the status quo.  It's hard for him to attract people who can push the envelope.  Keep in mind that KC probably has more engineers per capita than any other city.  Is there any doubt as to the reason why creativity and common sense always give way to rigid standards?
Traffic engineers are the problem, not Wayne Cauthen.

That is so much bull.  WC is either the CM or he is not.  Can't do anything about the traffic engineers then what good is he?

If he is the CM then he is in charge and can tell them what to do and give examples of other cities to follow.  This is such a famous line:  "if others can do it why can't we?", and he should use it.  Believe me, it gets results.  A good CM gets the people to do what he wants them to do.  And if it is the case of the tail wagging the dog then that is a good reason Cauthen should not be the CM.  If he can't control the staff then he should be outta here.

[cdm2p]

That is so much bull.  WC is either the CM or he is not.  Can't do anything about the traffic engineers then what good is he?

If he is the CM then he is in charge and can tell them what to do and give examples of other cities to follow.  This is such a famous line:  "if others can do it why can't we?", and he should use it.  Believe me, it gets results.  A good CM gets the people to do what he wants them to do.  And if it is the case of the tail wagging the dog then that is a good reason Cauthen should not be the CM.  If he can't control the staff then he should be outta here.

I think I've had enough of this.

Let's get back to the issue.  This town has become dominated by the automobile (before Cauthen came to town) and it will take a long time before pedestrians get the consideration they deserve in an urban environment.

[Highlander]

From a slighly different angle, one way to make downtown or the entire core more pedestrian friendly is to make it a No Right Turn On Red Zone.  I have been nearly hit by motorist turning right on red all over town because they are looking at oncoming traffic and not people who may be in the intersection crossing legally with the light.  Right Turn on Red is great for keeping traffic flowing but it is about as anti-pedestrian a law as they come.  It is interesting that you don't have the privilige of turning right on red (or left in the UK/Ireland) in pedestrian-friendly Europe.