Making downtown more pedestrian friendly

[LenexatoKCMO]

In bigger cities there often (not always) seems to be more of a cooperative relationship between cars & pedestrians than there is here. Each knows exactly what they can get away with, and what's expected of them. In KC the relationship is an extremely confused one to say the least. More pedestrians would certainly help even it out over time.

It doesn't help that so many of our urban streets are wide, expressway-like, boulevards that lull drivers into thinking that they are still on the 45 mph, suburban, arterials they are used to, where pedestrians are about as common as UFOs. 

[staubio]

It doesn't help that so many of our urban streets are wide, expressway-like, boulevards that lull drivers into thinking that they are still on the 45 mph, suburban, arterials they are used to, where pedestrians are about as common as UFOs. 

This is a huge issue.

When I was in Portland a month or so ago, we met with one of the senior planners for Tri-Met, the local transit agency. I remarked that the actual feeling of traffic levels didn't feel all of that different from Kansas City.

She then made a point that made complete sense: we've got WAY TOO MUCH capacity. Everywhere you look, there are 3 lanes for traffic. If Grand's expressway characteristics aren't good enough, jump over to a massively over capacity and underutilized Oak. Contrast that with a place like Portland, with only a few busy arterials the size of Grand and the rest small, balanced streets with short blocks, and we've got a nightmare for pedestrians and transit adoption.

[staubio]

One small thing that would help with pedestrian friendliness in downtown is snow removal on the I-70 overpasses. Those are actually pretty heavily traveled and are never cleared, so people basically just smash down the snow where it is the least deep and trudge over a slick snowpack.

DNA is working with the DCID to get them to clear these after major snow events.

[LenexatoKCMO]

This is a huge issue.

When I was in Portland a month or so ago, we met with one of the senior planners for Tri-Met, the local transit agency. I remarked that the actual feeling of traffic levels didn't feel all of that different from Kansas City.

She then made a point that made complete sense: we've got WAY TOO MUCH capacity. Everywhere you look, there are 3 lanes for traffic. If Grand's expressway characteristics aren't good enough, jump over to a massively over capacity and underutilized Oak. Contrast that with a place like Portland, with only a few busy arterials the size of Grand and the rest small, balanced streets with short blocks, and we've got a nightmare for pedestrians and transit adoption.

Exactly - the psychology seems to work the other way too.  In other cities where there are just a hanful of higher speed boulevards, the pedestrians seem to be much more cognizent that those streets present extra risk.  Not only do the boulevards stand out more visually since they are fewer and further between, a greater concentration of the high speed traffic is going to be using them, so pedestrians are more likely to notice the traffic.  Here, the boulevards are so ubiquitous that no one pays them any extra attention and the traffic is often so sparse that you are less likely to be onguard, looking for that solitary car flying along at 45. 

[chrizow]

yep.  our famous "boulevard system" and the mindset it has engendered has made kansas city an excellent city to drive in.  walk?  cycle?  not so much. 

/drives everywhere.

[DaveKCMO]

If it hurts someone's ego that their rolling ton of metal and plastic doesn't automatically get to go wherever it wants whenever it wants because there are occasionally squishy fleshbags in its way, sometimes even delaying the driver by perhaps a whole minute or two, then it may be time for that person to take a deep breath and realize that they are an asshole.

[DaveKCMO]

One small thing that would help with pedestrian friendliness in downtown is snow removal on the I-70 overpasses. Those are actually pretty heavily traveled and are never cleared, so people basically just smash down the snow where it is the least deep and trudge over a slick snowpack.

DNA is working with the DCID to get them to clear these after major snow events.

...and 670! i called 311 this morning to report those. i also plan on reporting several property owners in the crossroads who neglect to clear their sidewalks after a snow. i'm looking at YOU, 1721 Baltimore owner!

inside the loop is fine, with banks/city/federal/cordish knowing their responsibility (and limiting their liability).

[dangerboy]

The incremental conversion of one way streets back to two way streets should help calm traffic a bit.  One-way, multi-lane streets are notorious for encouraging speeding.

[KCPowercat]

I don't have a problem pushing a button on busy streets like Broadway...blame the green light initiative to get traffic moving.... but most of downtown should have automatic walk signals.

Heck I'd be happy with pedestrian signals on each side of the street...I could list of 5 different intersections with stop lights I have to turn around to see if I can walk or not. 

OK I'm back on this hot and heavy...all kinds of new streetlights going up, example, 12th & Walnut, but still have to push the button?  Unacceptable.  What can we do to fix this?  Numerous calls to 311?

[aknowledgeableperson]

Create more pedestrians.

[KCPowercat]

Do you really think the # of pedestrians will change anything?  Who is counting pedestrians now?  What is the magic # so they change the signaling?

Suggestion makes zero sense.

So, more calls to 311?

[AllThingsKC]

So, more calls to 311?

Or... create more pedrestrians to make more calls to 311. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

Do you really think the # of pedestrians will change anything?  Who is counting pedestrians now?  What is the magic # so they change the signaling?

Suggestion makes zero sense.

So, more calls to 311?

Well, if you had 6 or more people trying to cross at every green light then the city would know there are peds crossing, therefore no need to push a button.  However, if only one ped crosses every three or four green lights then maybe that is why there is the button.

Whatever, given that the city tries to follow some sort of traffic code guidelines there must be something telling them to have the extra cost of having the peds push the button.

[mean]

Yes, and the guidelines telling them to have the extra cost of having the peds push the button are traffic engineers who are interested in shorter green light times so they can maximize vehicular cross traffic. Ped greens require longer light times because some people walk slowly or are using walkers, etc. Longer light times means fewer switches. Fewer switches means cross traffic has to wait longer. This makes traffic engineers cry and stamp their feet up and down and pout.

[KCPowercat]

And it makes zero sense, especially in the cbd. If this is what operation green light has done, then they need to reevaluate that program.

[KCPowercat]

Anybody know anything about the "bicycle and pedestrian advisory committee"?  Seems like a good issue for them but I am sure they have about as much pull around city hall as I do.

[lock+load]

Not to mention it also upsets the flow of traffic when lights change at random times rather than on a set schedule.  There is no reason the lights cannot be programmed so green lights are convenient to drivers on a set schedule while pedestrians also get a walk on the same set schedule.

[dangerboy]

yes, submit a 311 ticket for each intersection with a push button.  KCP, see the PM I sent you.

[DaveKCMO]

Create more pedestrians.

there are plenty of pedestrians at 12th and walnut. and you know what these peds do? jaywalk, because they know the buttons won't give them a signal when the light is already green. take down the buttons and just make a walk signal automatic. no excuse in the CBD.

[KCPowercat]

Here is the very professional response from the city:

The newignals have pedestrian push buttons that need to be purshed to activate pedestrian signal

I tried one of the new ped. walk signals today, you just have to touch them then a red light and beep to acknowledge you have pushed it...I assume an ADA requirement.