Odors, Public Hearing

[taxi]

Many people are aware of the stink that often permeates the northern part of downtown, especially in the River Market and Columbus Park. While it is likely that this smell comes from several sources, I believe that most of it comes from National Starch and Chemical Company, which has a large installation in NKC, directly across the river from Berkeley Park.

Odors can have a very strong impact on receptor populations and their quality of life and, as a result, effect economic development in those areas. As you forumers well know, there has been recent and huge investment in this area, and  another billion dollars in investment is planned or in the works.

National Starch is presently in the process of renewing their Air Operating Permit, which they have to do every 5 years. Public comments on their Part 70 draft permit were due on December 4. As a result of some of those comments, there will be a public hearing. I believe that a large turn-out of concerned citizens will send a strong message to National Starch, as well as the Missouri Dept. of Natural Resources. It is my hope that the Installation would then be required to be more compliant and even institute additional, voluntary odor control plans.

The hearing is:

Wednesday, February 13th
6:30 PM
500 Northeast Colbern Road
Lee’s Summit, MO  64086

National Starch has a history of odor violations dating back to at least 1995, the earliest year I have been able to access such data. Odor emissions are not regulated by the federal govt., and the state regulations are tragically flawed, subjective and ineffective; but, that is beyond the scope of the permit. National Starch has no real odor control plan, nor much of an incentive to initiate one. My research indicates that they are capable of producing zero odorous emissions, even from their water treatment tanks, which lay 300' to the east of highway 9, at the northern end of the Heart of America Bridge.

I urge all of you who find these odors a nuisance and want to make a difference attend this hearing. There may not be another opportunity like this one until 2013.

Below are some relative links. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thanks, and I hope to see some of you there (although I don't know what most of you look like).

Dan

http://www.dnr.mo.gov/env/apcp/docs/nat ... ch-p70.pdf
http://www.dnr.mo.gov/env/apcp/odor-workgroup.htm
http://www.dnr.mo.gov/env/apcp/docs/clean-petition.pdf
http://www.nationalstarch.com/NationalStarch/
http://www.nationalstarch.com/NationalS ... inability/

[anniewarbucks]

Okay. What kind of odors are we talking about here? I have not been able to smell for 10 years so if I was near this plant I would not be offended by the odor.

[scooterj]

Okay. What kind of odors are we talking about here? I have not been able to smell for 10 years so if I was near this plant I would not be offended by the odor.

Envision a gigantic vat of boiling diarrhea,  drizzled with some festering grade school kid vomit, and topped off with a dollop of rotting flesh that has decomposed to a black, waxy foam.

That's about what it spells like when the wind hits that starch plant just right.




(Why is the hearing in Lee's Summit?  Are they trying to make it as difficult as possible for those affected by the odor to attend?)

[loftguy]

Envision a gigantic vat of boiling diarrhea,  drizzled with some festering grade school kid vomit, and topped off with a dollop of rotting flesh that has decomposed to a black, waxy foam.

That's about what it spells like when the wind hits that starch plant just right.




(Why is the hearing in Lee's Summit?  Are they trying to make it as difficult as possible for those affected by the odor to attend?)

Ehhh, Mr. Kim, whatayasay we leave the starch off of the shirts this time?

[jaysonv]

What about the odor that resembles dog food?  Is that related? 

I have thankfully never smelled anything so foul as what was just described... Downtown or otherwise...

[loftguy]

What about the odor that resembles dog food?  Is that related? 

I have thankfully never smelled anything so foul as what was just described... Downtown or otherwise...

Last Friday night, from the River to Crown Center.  Such a memorable scent.  Scoot pretty well nailed it.

[taxi]

The worst smell is mostly confined to the area on the north side of the HoA Bridge and smells, like, well, shit. It is from National Starch's waste water treatment plants and, from what I understand, it is organic compounds (mostly corn by-products) that are breaking down into sludge. Then, of course, there is the removal and likely shipping of that sludge, which is (I think) a lot of what we smell on this side of the river, as well as what I believe to be a burnt corn smell, from their dryers, that kind of smells like dog food.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost your sense of smell, Ms. Warbucks. As you probably remember, it's very difficult to describe a smell. Generally, I try to just note how strong it was, and if it was acidic, or smelled like rotten eggs, how long it lasted, etc.

Last Wed. it smelled particularly strong, kind of sweet, and definitely unpleasant. I filed a complaint (see link below) with the DNR and it was investigated today. That's 5 days later. This event should emphasize the inherent problem with the present compliance system. Regardless, and not surprisingly, the investigator did indeed detect an odor that was beyond the state-regulated odor dilution threshold of 7:1. As a result, they will be receiving a Notice of Violation. And it will be discussed at the next meeting of the Air Conservation Committee.

Many people in this area accept these industrial, odorous emissions as a fact of life when, in reality, we should not have to smell them. If no one complains, nothing will be done to stop or curtail the problem. Therefore, it is imperative that people in the receptor population file a complaint when they find the odors offensive. You can do this by calling the regional DNR office at:

816-622-7000

You can also do it online at:

http://www.dnr.mo.gov/concern.htm

[Sussudio]

Is it similar to the smell while driving on 435 over the river/Bayer plant area? Because if that's what it smells like I'm all for speaking out. I don't live in River Market, but I do plan on living DT for awhile. I prefer not to smell that.

[taxi]

The hearing is at the regional office of the DNR. I can't say that they are trying to discourage attendance. They may not have any other venues available. But come on, don't you all want to go to Lee's Summit?

If enough people are interested, I can get a bus from my neighbor, Arrow. Please chime in if you truly want me to do that. Or we could just hop on the LS Light Rail Line.

BTW, they do not make starch for your shirts there. They make corn starches and glutons and other, mostly food-type products.

[scooterj]

Luckily the wind blows the right way to bring the scent across the River Market & Downtown only a few times a year.    But it's bad when it does, because a lot of uninformed people start spreading the word among visitors that the smell is the river (wrong!), the Asian vendors at the City Market (yes I've seriously heard that, and it was dished out by a rental rep for a loft!!!), or homeless people in downtown alleys (seriously, people???).

[loftguy]

The hearing is at the regional office of the DNR. I can't say that they are trying to discourage attendance. They may not have any other venues available. But come on, don't you all want to go to Lee's Summit?

If enough people are interested, I can get a bus from my neighbor, Arrow. Please chime in if you truly want me to do that. Or we could just hop on the LS Light Rail Line.

BTW, they do not make starch for your shirts there. They make corn starches and glutons and other, mostly food-type products.

So, you're saying that the other company is named "Faultless" with reason?

[taxi]

Yes, Loftguy, and I've been guilty of using the "Faultless" pun in the recent past.

Scooterj, I've been studying air dispersion models, and the atmospheric conditions in the Fall and Winter make it more likely for the smell to come this way. Also, the air at night makes the smell travel "better". All this science I don't understand, it's just my job 5 days a week.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Is it similar to the smell while driving on 435 over the river/Bayer plant area? Because if that's what it smells like I'm all for speaking out. I don't live in River Market, but I do plan on living DT for awhile. I prefer not to smell that.

The smell along 435 is from the sewage treatment plant that is west of 435 south of Front Street.  That plant has been there for many, many years.  Before much of the development in the area and 435 being built.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Many people are aware of the stink that often permeates the northern part of downtown, especially in the River Market and Columbus Park. While it is likely that this smell comes from several sources, I believe that most of it comes from National Starch and Chemical Company, which has a large installation in NKC, directly across the river from Berkeley Park.

I do have some sympathy for you but it is somewhat similiar to one complaining about noise of trains when one moves near some railroad tracks.  And you should have been around when the stockyards were up and running.

[staubio]

I do have some sympathy for you but it is somewhat similiar to one complaining about noise of trains when one moves near some railroad tracks.  And you should have been around when the stockyards were up and running.

Not at all. This plant is violating standards knowingly and has been known to "release" whatever vile stench they harbour during weekends and evenings to avoid being noticed. It is a major problem.

If you were interested in working out a bus deal, taxi, I'd fire up the DNA machine to get some folks on board. I'm sure this is something that our membership would be interested in.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Where do they store this vile stench before release?

[FangKC]

I can only imagine the odor downtown when the stockyards and meat-packing plants were in operation.

[aknowledgeableperson]

And that is why the west side of dt was left behind by the rich.  That good old West Bottoms smell.

I can just see it now.  What would have happened to the West Bottoms and KC in general if in the olden times they had to deal with smell regulations like they do now.

[taxi]

AKP, you bring up several interesting points worthy of discussion. So, let me begin...

I do have some sympathy for you but it is somewhat similiar to one complaining about noise of trains when one moves near some railroad tracks.  And you should have been around when the stockyards were up and running.

Trains are innocuous and even romantic to some folks. A vile stench is a public nuisance, especially when the violator is capable of (if not required and/or enforced to) eliminating that odor. Whether they ramp up production at night I'm uncertain, but smells travel farther and closer to the ground at night.

Let's say someone looks for a condo and buys one in the River Market. Perhaps they only see the place during the day and/or on evenings when the wind is not blowing their way. They may be unaware that on many nights and some days they will not be able to open their windows. Also, as previously mentioned, some people will not even consider a home in this area, because of the perceived if not witnessed pervasive stink.

Believe me, some nights are much worse than others. And I believe it's worse now than it was 5 years ago, and worse this winter than last winter.

And I was, BTW, around when the stockyards were up and running. In my past life, I worked for American Bovine, and I would lead the blind cows out to shit.

I can just see it now.  What would have happened to the West Bottoms and KC in general if in the olden times they had to deal with smell regulations like they do now.

Due to the nature of sarcasm and forum posts, it's difficult to know completely what you mean by this. For the sake of lively conversation, I'll take the position that you are serious, and concerned that the West Bottoms and KC would have languished, in that case. So, just maybe the world would be just a little less (messed) up. Today, most odor regulations are driven by Concentrated Animal Feed Operations (CAFO's), today's equivalent of the stockyards, only much worse. These are now only placed in rural areas using air dispersion modeling along with adequate topography and other factors and complicated equations, in order to meet current odor regulations.  But heaven forbid that the 19th century KC populous were to ever stop and say that something's amiss. Maybe Americans wouldn't be eating beef for every meal. Beef made mostly of fat from unhealthy cows that are eating feed that consists of mostly subsidized corn products for which they have not evolved enough to digest and therefore must be slaughtered before they explode. But I digress.
But wait, what if Upton Sinclair (and I do not by any stretch of the imagination mean to put myself in his company!) had not investigated the Chicago stockyards and written The Jungle. Maybe the MEAT industry would not have to deal with BS worker safety regulations and now they could be making even more money and maybe even have a country of their own and rule the world. And you could be president. &&& (I just learned that symbol from a recent post and I should use it more often). Imagine, a knowledgeable person as president, instead of a greedy, blood-thirsty, self-righteous moron. And maybe we could even get them Muslims to eat Big Macs. &&& As my friend the Reverend Horton Heat likes to say, "Eat a cow, eat a cow 'cuz it's good for you, eat a cow, eat a cow it's a thing that goes 'moo'... Roberto Duran eats two before a fight, 'cuz it gets a mighty man a lotta mighty might... Look at all the cows in the slaughter house yard, gotta hit 'em in the head, gotta hit 'em real hard. First you gotta clean it, then the butcher cuts it up, throws it on a scale, throws an eyeball in a cup!"

If you were interested in working out a bus deal, taxi, I'd fire up the DNA machine to get some folks on board. I'm sure this is something that our membership would be interested in.

Mr. Staubio, I can get the bus still, I think, but I'll have to call them immediately. I have to pay for the driver and gas, which is $125, and the bus will carry up to 56 people. I can probably get reimbursed, but I don't want to do it unless you can get a significant number. As of right now, there are 2 of us from CP driving and we can haul 10 people, and I think we're about full. And if the DNA wants to throw in a contribution, all the better.

I really really really do feel that this is a good time to pack that hearing with people and just maybe the right people will take notice. Like the National Starch board member in Dallas who hears about this and gets on his phone to his henchmen and says "Take care of that KC stink, before someone finds out we're not in compliance with current Homeland Security regulations!"

[K.C.Highrise]

I will be there.