Status and future of the River Market area??

[mgh7676]

I knew that. Do you think most people care?

The conversation was about restaurants inside the City Market.

You were meandering into the neighborhood. Just trying to keep the conversation focused on the need for CM operators to collectively extend into evening hours. The two neighborhood examples are already open at night and not relative at all.

again, do you think most people make the distinction? Does it not help make the case to those owners if a restaurant outside the city market is open in the evening? If someone is going to the river market going to exclude across the street because it's in a different shopping center and not the official city market?

Besides, your point is off from reality. What about the four in the city market with evening hours? Bo Ling's, Winslow's, Blue Nile, Minsky's Pizza.
If evening hours didn't work why do they open? Is it more likely the owners of the other places are stubborn or that evening hours don't work for their business?

I think it is more of a City Market design flaw than anything else. Bo Ling's, Winslow's, Blue Nile and Minsky all have appealing store fronts that open up to 5th Street...this can't hurt with evening hours. City Market almost has the feel of a really ugly mall when the parking lot is not filled with vendors..just isn't that appealing on a normal day. The opening of Walnut Street would help. I would love to see more permeable surfaces used in the city market to break up the monotony of asphalt..maybe cobblestone or pavers? Trees? Anything.

[bobbyhawks]

For the thousandth time...


There are a lot of examples of European style plazas that can allow cars in off-hours and pleasant in-plaza dining options. Since the CC Plaza won't shut down a street, we don't really have a true "plaza" area. I think an upgrade to the interior, along with a place or two that serve a good bottle of wine, would really make a difference. Plaza, outdoor dining, without cars streaking by would be something unique in KC.

[pash]

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[KCMax]

Word is that Kaldi on 5th St in the City Market will be an office/training facility, not a coffee shop.

Confirmed: http://www.recommendeddaily.co/kaldis-c ... er-market/

All of the metro Lattelands will be Kaldi's now.

http://www.pitch.com/FastPitch/archives ... dis-coffee

[KCDowntown]

A preliminary permit just came across for the platting of the 2nd & Delaware project (298 units at the NW corner of 2nd & Delaware). Here's another permit for the rezoning of the site.

Here is a link to a rendering of the project located on the Arnold Development Group's website.

KCDowntown

Downtown Development Map

[smh]

A preliminary permit just came across for the platting of the 2nd & Delaware project (298 units at the NW corner of 2nd & Delaware). Here's another permit for the rezoning of the site.

Here is a link to a rendering of the project located on the Arnold Development Group's website.

KCDowntown

Downtown Development Map

Do we know the proposed zoning classification? Looks like most of the site is UR with a smidge of M1-5 (Jimmy John's favorite zoning...) on the western parcel.

[FangKC]

I still wish they were going for higher density on that site (more units)--twice the height.

[cubsmike33]

I still wish they were going for higher density on that site (more units)--twice the height.

I don't disagree, I'd always love to see more density, but I like the rendering and as I've heard people say on the forum we still need to get the rents higher to be able to make higher density projects feasible. More people living downtown = a win for us all.

PS This is my first post here and I really appreciate everyones opinion and passion for restoring downtown and midtown kcmo.

[earthling]

^Welcome first poster! Yeah, I've been seeing that rents would need to hit about $2/sqft to build new hirises w/out incentives, maybe $1.50 with large incentives - loftguy would know.

[loftguy]

^Welcome first poster! Yeah, I've been seeing that rents would need to hit about $2/sqft to build new hirises w/out incentives, maybe $1.50 with large incentives - loftguy would know.

It's not a fixed number and costs are always shifting due to pricing for land assembly, materials and construction techniques.

High-rise, self supporting, mutli-family development rents in other cities are at about $1.90-$2 per sqft, as a minimum. Don't know what their profit margins look like at that cost. Evidently enough.

I think this proposed project is remarkable. It's intended to be the first leed platinum multi-family development in the US, if the costs come in such as to make it possible.

[earthling]

I haven't seen any specific cost-benefit analysis (CBA) but it may make sense for KCMO to continue to provide incentives for new highrise construction. Would be interesting to see a CBA that compares the 30-50 year city cost to maintain sewers/roads/utilities to a new 300 home sprawled development in KC North vs the 30-50yr city cost to maintain a 300 unit residential tower taking up less than a sq block downtown (not a general cost of sprawl study, but one specific to KCMO). It may make sense to allow $5M-$10M+ incentives of some form to discourage future maintenance costs of sprawl. Or perhaps TIF to help with garage space as long as a portion can be used for free public parking. Am less supportive of TIF lately unless it has a direct public benefit - something that we can directly use or saves future maintenance costs.

[flyingember]

I haven't seen any specific cost-benefit analysis (CBA) but it may make sense for KCMO to continue to provide incentives for new highrise construction. Would be interesting to see a CBA that compares the 30-50 year city cost to maintain sewers/roads/utilities to a new 300 home sprawled development in KC North vs the 30-50yr city cost to maintain a 300 unit residential tower taking up less than a sq block downtown (not a general cost of sprawl study, but one specific to KCMO). It may make sense to allow $5M-$10M+ incentives of some form to discourage future maintenance costs of sprawl. Or perhaps TIF to help with garage space as long as a portion can be used for free public parking. Am less supportive of TIF lately unless it has a direct public benefit - something that we can directly use or saves future maintenance costs.

for me it's about the sum total of the value to the city. it's possible for a suburban tract to be a greater gain than any downtown project

don't forget there could be downtown utility needs. our utility system today is built for so much capacity in total. when do we reach that point and what's the cost to bring more water or sewer lines into a developed area?

[loftguy]

I haven't seen any specific cost-benefit analysis (CBA) but it may make sense for KCMO to continue to provide incentives for new highrise construction. Would be interesting to see a CBA that compares the 30-50 year city cost to maintain sewers/roads/utilities to a new 300 home sprawled development in KC North vs the 30-50yr city cost to maintain a 300 unit residential tower taking up less than a sq block downtown (not a general cost of sprawl study, but one specific to KCMO). It may make sense to allow $5M-$10M+ incentives of some form to discourage future maintenance costs of sprawl. Or perhaps TIF to help with garage space as long as a portion can be used for free public parking. Am less supportive of TIF lately unless it has a direct public benefit - something that we can directly use or saves future maintenance costs.

I like this line of sensible analysis. If we took this same thinking and applied property taxation that reflects actual costs, greenfield development would become much more selective, no?

[KCMax]

New City Market shop offers traditional household items with a twist

The City Market’s new Yoki will have you smiling as you shop.

The store, which will have its grand opening from 9 a.m. to noon Saturday, offers a variety of home goods including many “Japanese-inspired” items that are “high-quality but affordable,” the owners said. An inventory list includes housewares, kitchenware, dishes and ceramics, stationery and home office items, health and beauty products, gifts, novelties and seasonal items.

[geeman68]

New City Market shop offers traditional household items with a twist

The City Market’s new Yoki will have you smiling as you shop.

The store, which will have its grand opening from 9 a.m. to noon Saturday, offers a variety of home goods including many “Japanese-inspired” items that are “high-quality but affordable,” the owners said. An inventory list includes housewares, kitchenware, dishes and ceramics, stationery and home office items, health and beauty products, gifts, novelties and seasonal items.

This is my friend's shoppe!! It's a cute little store and hopefully will drive off the synergy of the Asian markets/stores nearby, City Market/Farmers Market and the residential population. Go visit them.

[loftguy]

New City Market shop offers traditional household items with a twist

The City Market’s new Yoki will have you smiling as you shop.

The store, which will have its grand opening from 9 a.m. to noon Saturday, offers a variety of home goods including many “Japanese-inspired” items that are “high-quality but affordable,” the owners said. An inventory list includes housewares, kitchenware, dishes and ceramics, stationery and home office items, health and beauty products, gifts, novelties and seasonal items.

This is my friend's shoppe!! It's a cute little store and hopefully will drive off the synergy of the Asian markets/stores nearby, City Market/Farmers Market and the residential population. Go visit them.

I believe the other market area shops will benefit from the addition of Yoki. This is a beautiful, unique shop. The array of goods and the smart design will have people coming here routinely. A really cool addition.

[earthling]

That area is becoming more and more of a true world market.

[geeman68]

That area is becoming more and more of a true world market.

I tend to agree and wish they would turn that center section into more of a plaza/patio

[earthling]

Yeah, would love to see a world food/farm/street vendor plaza like I've seen in the court plazas in Morocco, with the visuals of a whole lamb/(pig) spinning on a rotisserie.

[bobbyhawks]

I'm excited to see what Yoki has. It is worth bringing up that the nearby Silk Road Travelers (off 5th and Deleware) is also a great source for unique gift items from Asia. I think most of the stuff is higher end Chinese and is definitely worth a wander. It is great to see a Japanese-specific store come into play as well.

I know there is some overlap, but I'd also love to see something like Au Marche in Lawrence open up here (http://www.aumarche.com).