Is this it?

[anniewarbucks]

One of the reasons that I have not been posting lately is that there is no big developements anymore. plus the sorry state of the economy has pretty well shut me down from traveling to KC.

[kcdcchef]

Times change, as do the, "regular posters."

so, this is how you justify the amount of strong contributors that have left alltogether?

[voltopt]

I follow KC development.

There is none.

End of story.

Hey now!  That is completely false!

There is less development, but certainly there is not "none."  It will pick up - there are too many people with too much invested in areas that continue to grow, despite the economy.
Here's some projects that are still active in Kansas City - this is not comprehensive, just off the top of my head, and does not include the many retail or restaurant projects that are planned for various parts of the city, nor does it include pie in the sky dream projects, such as the W hotel at this point.

Still possible, if unlikely
-Citadel Plaza
-East Village
-Valentine shopping center upgrade
-Troost retail in the 3100 block

In Development:
(projects with a high likelihood to happen within the next 5 years)

-UMKC Library
-UMKC convocation center
-NE neighborhood Community Center
-New Columbus Park housing
-New infill building at Grand & Missouri Ave
-18th & McGee Office Building
-18th & Oak Housing
-Troost BRT
-Continued Hospital Hill construction
-GSA office building at riverfront or east village(its not happening now, but it will happen)
-Pickwick Office building & Apartment building renovation
-Wizards Soccer Stadium at Bannister
-39th & Clark?
-UMKC student union
-additional 18th & Vine housing
-River Market Townhomes @ 4th & Wyandotte

Under Construction:

-MAC market rate apartment renovations on Armour & Gillham
-Large apartment complex in River Market
-Performing Arts Center
-Health Sciences Institute - Penn Valley Community College
-West Edge
-St. Luke's expansion
-Truman Sports Complex
-3724 Broadway Apts.
-3900 Broadway Retail building
-1701 Walnut
-JE Dunn Headquarters

[staubio]

I think, in the past, that the forum consisted of a lot more people in the know and was basically limited to the geekiest of geeks in terms of development. Its limited membership at the time meant that more people posted what they knew, even if it was sensitive, because it didn't really matter and there were few consequences.

Now, the forum has a much more diverse audience and a lot of people that just want to chat. Nothing wrong with that, but it dilutes the focus a bit and makes the forum something very different than what it started as. That is the change that many old-timers are bemoaning, I think.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I follow KC development.

There is none.

End of story.

That is downtown.

Plenty of development around, in planning and discussion, as listed by another.  Just not in your area of interest.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I would say that debate, as much as we like it, probably drives away readers.  Nothing worse thant to watch two people go around and around endlessly.

Debate, alone, is not bad.  It is how that debate is conducted that is the problem as you observe.  Afterall, it would be quite boring if all that was said is:

(Blank) development is great.

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed.

[staubio]

Debate, alone, is not bad.  It is how that debate is conducted that is the problem as you observe.  Afterall, it would be quite boring if all that was said is:

(Blank) development is great.

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed

Agreed.

Exactly. Debate has always been here. Debate with people who are more interested in picking fights than fleshing out an argument is newer, though.

[KCMax]

I think the conversation has dwindled as a result of (a) a lull in development news; combined with (b) most other discussions having been rehashed over and over again ad nauseum. In past development slowdowns we have had other things to discuss. I think people are tired of having the same arguments over and over again.

[kcdcchef]

I think the conversation has dwindled as a result of (a) a lull in development news; combined with (b) most other discussions having been rehashed over and over again ad nauseum. In past development slowdowns we have had other things to discuss. I think people are tired of having the same arguments over and over again.

see that is where i depart from you and a few others in this thread. if you look at a lot of the stuff we talked about in 03-04, i mean, a lot of it was fantasizing about 50 story towers, what ifs, could bes, etc, etc. sure, we were excited about the h&r block tower, sprint center, and p&l going up, but most of it was idle chatter way back when. look in the general kc archive, or dt archive, there is so much idle chatter going on about nothing. that seems to be gone now.

[GRID]

That is downtown.

Plenty of development around, in planning and discussion, as listed by another.  Just not in your area of interest.

Dude, I work in development and it has come to a grinding halt in the urban core and is barely breathing in the burbs.

Here, I will list the big projects in the metro.

Indep Arena (moving along)
Blue Springs Adams Dairy Landing (couple of big boxes, but tenants are dropping like flies)
Lee's Summit (same deal, RED had to get a loan just to keep these two projects going)
KCK (Speedway Plaza), big boxes, the few that will go up.
JoCo has a lot of projects that are on hold for now or are in extreme slow development mode mostly in Leawood and out near 135th and 69.

There are a couple of big distribution centers about to break ground, one near MCI and one near Olathe.

The Hammons hotel and convention center (if it gets built) will be the biggest project in the metro under construction next year outside the PAC.

Schlitterbaun is still very questionable, it they continue to build it, it will probably be about the same size as OOF.

That's it.

Urban Core?

The PAC. 

There has not been even the slightest interest in the urban core of KCMO since funkhouser was elected.  I'm not saying it's his fault, but nothing, NOTHING has even been in the pipeline for years (even before the economy crashed) except a couple of plaza developments which probably won't happen either.

And for the record, they shouldn't.

Tearing down buildings to build something new in this city is asinine when we have so much under-utilized land.

Asking for tiffs to tear down occupied, usable structures that give this area what urbanity it has and replacing those with tiff projects in an area of town that should no longer get tax breaks is crazy.

But then again, NOBODY is looking at the empty lots in east downtown, crossroads, midtown etc right now.

Nothing is going on and hasn't been going on for a few years in KC.

We are lucky to still be riding some of the left over wave of the Barnes era (P&L District, etc).

[voltopt]

I work in development - and it is criminal to suggest nothing is happening in the core.

[mean]

Oh yeah? Well I work in development, and...no, shit, I don't.

[KCMax]

see that is where i depart from you and a few others in this thread. if you look at a lot of the stuff we talked about in 03-04, i mean, a lot of it was fantasizing about 50 story towers, what ifs, could bes, etc, etc. sure, we were excited about the h&r block tower, sprint center, and p&l going up, but most of it was idle chatter way back when. look in the general kc archive, or dt archive, there is so much idle chatter going on about nothing. that seems to be gone now.

Yea, I think we've already had those discussions, so people don't really feel the need to go over them again, that's why we've seen it so quiet. Plus, Funkhouser as mayor tends to put a damper on those dreams, I don't think anyone expects him to push for a 50 story tower.

[voltopt]

Oh yeah? Well I work in development, and...no, shit, I don't.

Yeah, that was snide of me, wasn't it?  I think the development we see and talk about is the kind of stuff some of the posters on this board arn't that excited about.  Its the 1000 room hotels and 50 story office buildings and 350 unit condos that people like talking about.
But things are happening.  And the things that are happening are good, thoughtful things, not taxpayer money sinks or large scale projects that make the page 7 of USA Today.
The most positive thing is that the general perception of downtown Kansas City is much improved from 10 years ago, even if its still in dire straits.

[GRID]

Umm, 50 story towers, 700 plus hotel towers and 350 unit condo buildings don’t go up in KC, we have not had that type of intense development since the 70’s-80’s and all those developers are long gone.

I was talking about 12 unit rehabs, rowhouse proposals, 8 story midrises, 20,000 square foot urban retail spaces.

It’s not happening.

KC has really dropped the ball.

City Hall is a total disaster and will set the city back nearly a decade in my opinion.

When the economy does recover, all these other cities will pick up right where they left off and will fill empty office towers and condo towers and bust the cranes out to build more.

All while KC just wonders what the hell is going on.

We said no to hundreds of millions of dollars of federal money by completing screwing up any chance of building a transit system for another decade.

Something like 35 cities passed rail issues in the past year and the feds will hand out billions of dollars to those cities and others that are ready to expand or built transit.

We might get a few new buses out of the deal.

I have personally watched the development momentum shift from Johnson County to urban KCMO and the Northland over the past decade and over the past year or two, it has shifted right back to Johnson County.  What a fucking wasted effort if we are not going to continue and finish what we started.

Same can be said for downtown and the convention center.  God damn, we were so close to taking KC to the next level if we just continued the investment that continued playing catch up after 30-40 years of neglect.  We had a lot of work to do.

Now I wonder why we expanded Bartle, why we built the Ballroom and even the arena.  Why did we do all this and then just decided we were done.

KC has lost its way and in 2005, the city’s destiny was in its hands.  This city has come a long long way in the last 5-7 years.  But I’m not sure we have gained any ground at all on other large metro areas.  Actually, I think we probably slipped a few notches.

[loftguy]

But things are happening.  And the things that are happening are good, thoughtful things, not taxpayer money sinks or large scale projects that make the page 7 of USA Today.

What?  Where?  I look around downtown and I can find only a couple of small, new developments.  Yeah, we have a few things being built that were committed to a couple of years ago, but otherwise it's bleak.
Can you enlighten me?

[voltopt]

Hey now!  That is completely false!

There is less development, but certainly there is not "none."  It will pick up - there are too many people with too much invested in areas that continue to grow, despite the economy.
Here's some projects that are still active in Kansas City - this is not comprehensive, just off the top of my head, and does not include the many retail or restaurant projects that are planned for various parts of the city, nor does it include pie in the sky dream projects, such as the W hotel at this point.

Still possible, if unlikely
-Citadel Plaza
-East Village
-Valentine shopping center upgrade
-Troost retail in the 3100 block

In Development:
(projects with a high likelihood to happen within the next 5 years)

-UMKC Library
-UMKC convocation center
-NE neighborhood Community Center
-New Columbus Park housing
-New infill building at Grand & Missouri Ave
-18th & McGee Office Building
-18th & Oak Housing
-Troost BRT
-Continued Hospital Hill construction
-GSA office building at riverfront or east village(its not happening now, but it will happen)
-Pickwick Office building & Apartment building renovation
-Wizards Soccer Stadium at Bannister
-39th & Clark?
-UMKC student union
-additional 18th & Vine housing
-River Market Townhomes @ 4th & Wyandotte

Under Construction:

-MAC market rate apartment renovations on Armour & Gillham
-Large apartment complex in River Market
-Performing Arts Center
-Health Sciences Institute - Penn Valley Community College
-West Edge
-St. Luke's expansion
-Truman Sports Complex
-3724 Broadway Apts.
-3900 Broadway Retail building
-1701 Walnut
-JE Dunn Headquarters

[bahua]

so, this is how you justify the amount of strong contributors that have left alltogether?

I can't explain the temperaments of dozens of busy intelligent people, but I think it's foolish to assume that they were "driven away," by nameless forces of unperceived evil on the forum. People's lives change, and they don't keep doing all the things they once did. I'm actually astounded at the numbers of people that have stuck with the forum for all these years. I think that's a far greater surprise than people leaving and getting on with their lives.

[kcdcchef]

I can't explain the temperaments of dozens of busy intelligent people, but I think it's foolish to assume that they were "driven away," by nameless forces of unperceived evil on the forum. People's lives change, and they don't keep doing all the things they once did. I'm actually astounded at the numbers of people that have stuck with the forum for all these years. I think that's a far greater surprise than people leaving and getting on with their lives.

although i have a lot of respect for the fact you attempted to answer it this time versus your last bullshit answer, i call bullshit.

i have managed to actually make some friends off this thing. people i have met in kc and hung out with. shit, one that even brought his family to my home in pittsburgh. others i just had dinner and what not with in kc. here is the thing. the ones i have maintained good relationships with that no longer post, and they are all consistent on why they bailed. take the note i got from tat2kc, regarding how there are not intilligent people with to converse on here anymore, how the quality went to hell.

oh by the way, tat2kc told me to tell everyone he just recently got married in california to his partener of 20 years, so congratulations to them!!

[mean]

Yeah, that was snide of me, wasn't it? 

Nah, I didn't think it was snide, I just thought it was a funny way to make the valid point that there is stuff going on, even if not the kinds of high profile things that people get boners about.

take the note i got from tat2kc, regarding how there are not intilligent people with to converse on here anymore, how the quality went to hell.

I wonder if part of the problem might be that people have come to expect the internet to be a feedback loop wherein their ideas and opinions are reinforced by people who mostly agree with them. Studies have shown that people tend to read sites representing a view they agree with much more regularly than ones that don't. If you have a certain viewpoint or worldview or opinion, there are definitely a dozen blogs out there for you to read that will agree with you, whereas this forum is in many ways a relic of the pre-blog-explosion internet. There are no editorial filters placed on opinions, and anyone can say just about anything. The upside of this is that we get a diverse array of opinions; the downside is that people who don't want to deal with conflicting opinions may go elsewhere.

I have no idea if this is the case, but it seems logical, because there are certainly plenty of smart people left around here--some of them I tend to agree with, and some I don't.

oh by the way, tat2kc told me to tell everyone he just recently got married in california to his partener of 20 years, so congratulations to them!!

Congrats, tat, wherever you are. Prop 8 can suck it!