Changes?

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cityscape
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Changes?

Post by cityscape »

kcdcchef wrote: please dont make me do any more of your homework for you. i personally love new posters to the board, and try not to be a prick to them like some long timers, but my god, please, if you are a blatent wyco cheerleader ( which, you are ) dont expect to get away with this shit.
I am so sick of all of you "Regulars" who post day in and day out mocking those who don't spend hours a day researching our OPINIONS.  When I joined this site a few years ago I really enjoyed coming to here to learn about Kansas City.  Lately the forum has turned into a place where only those 20 or so regulars can have day to day chats about complete nonsense.  The moderators used to keep this BS to a minimum and actually place this garbage where it belonged......the dumpster (which is probably where my rant belongs now). 

If the goal of this forum is to inform those in and outside of KC all about the past, present, and future of KC, it is far from that now.  I told some of my friends about this site and they were all excited about it, until they had to go through 3 or 4 pages of nonsense in a thread before finding anything meaningful related to the topic.  Needless to say they won't be posting here or even reading here.  All I'm asking for is for the moderators to re-evaluate what is relevant and keep the pointless banter and attacks to a minimum.
Signed
Concerned Cityscape
Last edited by KCMax on Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by supastudio »

I'm going to agree with you now, before they immediately put this in the dumpster or delete it completely.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by KCPowercat »

what changes would you like to see made?  Examples of what is relevant and what isn't?
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cityscape
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Re: Changes needed

Post by cityscape »

If you moderators see nonsense that stretches on for more than 5 or 6 posts, delete it from the thread and place it in the dumpster.  If there are attacks on others that are completely unsubstantiated or irrelevant, delete it from the thread and place it in the dumpster.  Let's keep the threads on topic and full of information, not full of crap.  This site is slowly going down suicide hill on a snowy day!  It has SOOOOO much potential to be what it once was.  That isn't to say that people can't post nonsense, just create a separate thread for that so those who want to get useful information out of this site can find it easily.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by KCPowercat »

I retired from the moderator game.
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Re: Schlitterbahn Waterpark and Resort

Post by trailerkid »

cityscape wrote: I am so sick of all of you "Regulars" who post day in and day out mocking those who don't spend hours a day researching our OPINIONS.  When I joined this site a few years ago I really enjoyed coming to here to learn about Kansas City.  Lately the forum has turned into a place where only those 20 or so regulars can have day to day chats about complete nonsense.  The moderators used to keep this BS to a minimum and actually place this garbage where it belonged......the dumpster (which is probably where my rant belongs now). 

If the goal of this forum is to inform those in and outside of KC all about the past, present, and future of KC, it is far from that now.  I told some of my friends about this site and they were all excited about it, until they had to go through 3 or 4 pages of nonsense in a thread before finding anything meaningful related to the topic.  Needless to say they won't be posting here or even reading here.  All I'm asking for is for the moderators to re-evaluate what is relevant and keep the pointless banter and attacks to a minimum.
Signed
Concerned Cityscape
Insult a moderator, but I think that's the only way to get any administrative pulse. Yeah...no one has any vested interest in having a "good" discussion so it all turns to crap and eventually people just move on. No idea why they don't let Michael/Lyrical Gangsta or KSFarmboy back on here considering how boring and messy the discussion is. They'd actually liven things up and improve the discussion IMHO.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by im2kull »

I would agree, in that most threads need some retooling to make sense to the general public, and we need to pretty much clean house of all the old threads and get them into the archive...which...I know we have, but I know nothing about.  Are the archive sections even archived stuff?  I see postings that appear pretty recent in there.

As for the flame wars and what not, thats going to happen, its a forum, it can get out of control, and its fine at the time, but afterwards there should be a way to clean those posts up a little, or get rid of them (the ones that simply don't fit into the topic...or are an offshoot of another topic)

I know that personally, after the last few days of over-the-top bickering with maitre D, I have myself finally hit a wall...i really feel no need to argue or even elaborate on how someones wrong with that and that anymore.  For now on I'm pretty much just sticking to myself, stating my opinion where its needed, giving some important input on the topic, and moving on...rather than trash a thread with nonsense (from both or all parties)  Its (the bickering) killing this forums image, and I would be hard pressed to concede that its NOT already beyond the tipping point...I think we've already passed ruined what this way, and its too late to go back.  I guess doing more research on the NCAABB rulebook in one night than my college calculus in one month can really get to you, and make you realize how some people just can't be changed, and some things you just need to let go (whether you're right or wrong).

We all need to stop using our heads, and use our brains. Period.
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Re: Schlitterbahn Waterpark and Resort

Post by missingkc »

This forum would be much improved if news, photos, and links were separated from commentary.  Some of us find the news very interesting.  The endless commentary, not always so much.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by kcmetro »

cityscape wrote: That isn't to say that people can't post nonsense, just create a separate thread for that so those who want to get useful information out of this site can find it easily.
It's called the sports board.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by KCMax »

Awhile back I think we were more vigilant about trimming threads, but the problem with doing so, is it is impossible to have clear guidelines as to what we trim or edit, so it looks arbitrary and capricious and it ends up upsetting more people than if we had just left it. It is also an effort that takes up a lot of time - I don't think any of us are moderating every last post and every thread.

But more importantly, this is a free forum for free ideas. If people want to go off on a tangent, why shouldn't they? If you don't like the tangent, then bring the conversation back to topic. Its like a flee flowing conversation among friends. People will talk about what interests them.

As for "regulars" mocking "opinions", that is again part of a free flow of ideas. If your opinions are based on facts not supported by evidence, expect to have them criticized. I cannot say "I think the sky is green" and expect people to not challenge that. There is also no rule that you have to answer every criticism of your post. You can save a lot of time and energy by simply ignoring a lot of the silly responses. It is very easy to detect when someone is baiting for a response.

I don't think the goal of the form was ever to inform people. This is not a news site. The goal is to facilitate the free exchange of ideas relating to Kansas City, particularly downtown Kansas City. However, that does bring up an interesting point, perhaps we should have a "news aggregator" - I think we discussed that idea then abandoned it when none of us wanted to maintain it.
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Re: Schlitterbahn Waterpark and Resort

Post by kcdcchef »

what does any of this have to do with the fact that some new poster came on here and posted a bunch of bullshit lies and got called on it? and from my own experience, i can tell you it is probably someone already from the board using a different screen name.

and i totally agree with TK,let michael come back!!
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Re: Changes needed

Post by KCPowercat »

I agree, like Bahua has said in the past, a forum is not a good tool to document information about projects, etc....when I started the site I tried to use that because it was the easiest way to get information from multiple people...things like wiki's didn't exist at that time.

Since this forum has grown I have tried multiple times to start a wiki, blog, etc. to do the project tracking part of the site....but have gotten zero interest from users in it...so it continues to die.
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Re: Changes needed

Post by Highlander »

KCMax wrote: Awhile back I think we were more vigilant about trimming threads, but the problem with doing so, is it is impossible to have clear guidelines as to what we trim or edit, so it looks arbitrary and capricious and it ends up upsetting more people than if we had just left it. It is also an effort that takes up a lot of time - I don't think any of us are moderating every last post and every thread.
This thread itself is a good example of how to separate out a thought from an existing thread.  For instance, we don't need every P&L thread to develop into and urban design or social justice debate nor should the Bartle Hall thread become a sounding board on urban art.  I think it's fairly simple to protect the really valuable threads about some dynamic development project in KC and let the "Does Olathe have a soul" threads evolve as they will.  That's the only beef I would have here; there are threads I value and threads that are essentially there to have fun with.  The former are those threads about something that is actually ongoing in KC development like the Union Station utilization thread, the P&L District threads, etc...

(well, it's not the only beef I have, I absolutely hate the juvenile pictorial taunts in the Sports Room)
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Re: Changes?

Post by im2kull »

I remember being on here for years before I actually joined and made a sn, only reason being that I constantly watched two threads about two developments I was interested in.  I seriously remember logging on every day or two just to check two threads and see the new progress.  I always remember them being to the point, and without the current circus of attacks on various members.  Either way, I think everyone that is a regular needs to take a step back, and make factual, informed, posts in the threads that demand it (Pretty much any thread begining with "OFFICIAL:"  Lets all try to keep the (unrelated) side chat in development threads to a minimum, and if its something that does merit a post, why not start a new thread thats related to it, rather than gunk up the more informational threads?  Like the Bartle Hall (now bartle hall artwork) thread, there is NO reason that the opinion of the loading dock artwork couldn't have been posted as a new thread.  Sure its related to bartle, but seriously, think about the effect it has on the "Official: Bartle Hall Expansion" thread...its detrimental.  Now granted the poster is a new user, so to some degree I can see why the oversight occured, but this is where its up to Mods to correct the error (as they did with my "Big Ben" thread (Sarcasm!)) and move it into a proper topic...ex. "Bartle Hall Artwork".  Something that simple would serve to keep peoples interest in a certain topic, and the site/forum as a whole...rather than turn people off due to the overwhelming amount of un-needed posts in an otherwise excellent thread.

Thanks for reading, I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback,
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cityscape
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Re: Changes?

Post by cityscape »

im2kull wrote: I remember being on here for years before I actually joined and made a sn, only reason being that I constantly watched two threads about two developments I was interested in.  I seriously remember logging on every day or two just to check two threads and see the new progress.  I always remember them being to the point, and without the current circus of attacks on various members.  Either way, I think everyone that is a regular needs to take a step back, and make factual, informed, posts in the threads that demand it (Pretty much any thread begining with "OFFICIAL:"  Lets all try to keep the (unrelated) side chat in development threads to a minimum, and if its something that does merit a post, why not start a new thread thats related to it, rather than gunk up the more informational threads?  Like the Bartle Hall (now bartle hall artwork) thread, there is NO reason that the opinion of the loading dock artwork couldn't have been posted as a new thread.  Sure its related to bartle, but seriously, think about the effect it has on the "Official: Bartle Hall Expansion" thread...its detrimental.  Now granted the poster is a new user, so to some degree I can see why the oversight occured, but this is where its up to Mods to correct the error (as they did with my "Big Ben" thread (Sarcasm!)) and move it into a proper topic...ex. "Bartle Hall Artwork".  Something that simple would serve to keep peoples interest in a certain topic, and the site/forum as a whole...rather than turn people off due to the overwhelming amount of un-needed posts in an otherwise excellent thread.

Thanks for reading, I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback,
Cheers.
I agree.  These simple adjustments can really bring the forum back to where it once was.  I don't know how much time it takes as a moderator to do a check on the OFFICIAL threads each day, but I imagine that if that was done and we kept those threads simple and to the point, there would be a lot more interest in this forum.  I also agree with a previous poster that some of the "regulars" need to relax a little and learn proper ways to educate someone (especially a new poster) on how to properly post to the forum.  Yes, I know there are forum rules, but you can't expect everyone to read them, it just won't happen. 
kcdcchef wrote: what does any of this have to do with the fact that some new poster came on here and posted a bunch of bullshit lies and got called on it? and from my own experience, i can tell you it is probably someone already from the board using a different screen name.
Because it's not the first time it's happened and there's a lot better way to handle it.  I'm not saying their information wasn't correct, but you can help him/her out by not being such a douche and explaining where they went wrong (i.e. Google isn't always valid, use more concrete examples/facts).  Instead you acted like a jackass and probably turned a poster away. 
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Re: Changes?

Post by kcdcchef »

cityscape wrote:

Because it's not the first time it's happened and there's a lot better way to handle it.  I'm not saying their information wasn't correct, but you can help him/her out by not being such a douche and explaining where they went wrong (i.e. Google isn't always valid, use more concrete examples/facts).  Instead you acted like a jackass and probably turned a poster away. 
there are a lot of things on this forum that piss me off too, but for the most part, it is fine as is. the mods were locking threads more often and deleting stuff, seems to have stopped. or be more warranted. not sure, dont care. maybe you should go back and read the tone of the way that poster said it, saying, yeah, schlit will be better than this, so go suck an egg type of tone. not hardly. the person had a shit tone to their "facts", ( which, by using a variety of tools, GOOGLE BEING ONE OF THEM, the poster would have realized how wrong they were.

i hated the way new people got treated on here for a time too. somehow i managed to become a vet of this place. ( it is addictive, you know ) and besides, i turned away another incarnation of someone who already posts here. happens frequently. many here ( including myself ) are guilty of that. so save your bleeding heart shit.

here is an idea, dont like it here, dont come. i had a time in my life where i needed a break, other stuff more imporatant, and went away for about 6 months. hell, i keep in contact with a couple of old "regulars" who like to read without logging in anymore. i bust their balls about it everytime we email one another. oh well, i will get over it. so should you.
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Re: Changes?

Post by cityscape »

kcdcchef wrote: here is an idea, dont like it here, dont come. i had a time in my life where i needed a break, other stuff more imporatant, and went away for about 6 months. hell, i keep in contact with a couple of old "regulars" who like to read without logging in anymore. i bust their balls about it everytime we email one another. oh well, i will get over it. so should you.
Typical.  That's the point of this thread is to discuss changes.  Believe it or not, this forum doesn't center around you.  There are FAR more posters on here who look for information and want to share their opinions than those like yourself who use it to escape.  Maybe it is you who should consider looking elsewhere. 

Anyway, my hope is that the moderators put more focus on relevant posts to the threads (especially "OFFICIAL" threads).  I'm finished with this discussion as I've said all that I've wanted.  If I'm a minority, then so be it, but I'll bet there are a lot of others on this site as well as guests that feel the way I do that this site is slowly going downhill. 

I'll hope for changes.
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Re: Changes?

Post by ComandanteCero »

kcdcchef wrote:maybe you should go back and read the tone of the way that poster said it, saying, yeah, schlit will be better than this, so go suck an egg type of tone. not hardly. the person had a shit tone to their "facts", ( which, by using a variety of tools, GOOGLE BEING ONE OF THEM, the poster would have realized how wrong they were.
The original post was pretty reasonable, methinks you're just too used to the Sports board mentality where every post is about challenging or being challenged and using information for combating rather than discussing.

Not to mention... most of your posts in that particular thread are kind of trollish.  You have no real interest in the development beyond hoping it fails or under performs.
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Re: Changes?

Post by im2kull »

Regardless, Lets all just try to act like adults.  If you're able to, 1. Research your facts, or 2. Take a stab at stating something reasonable , if you are not sure of exact numbers, or do not have the time for research. 

I for one, was disgusted (personally, at myself...and in hindsight) for the amount of time I spent researching the 2009 NCAA Mens BB rules for ONE post, but nonetheless I did it, and conveyed my discoveries in the best way I could (by the book...quite literally) without maliciously attacking the other posters who didn't agree (not saying I didn't attack later on, but for that one post I was clean).  I posted a very informed post to make my point in that thread, even though it cost me HOURS of my own time.  I don't expect that from everyone, but I do expect forum users to attempt to verify what they post (If its intended to be a factual statement), be open to any feedback, or post it in a question form.  Its not that hard. 

Yes, I have a God complex, I'll admit it...I will straight up call people retards if they're posting outlandish and unsubstantiated statements.  I'm not saying that I don't like others opinions, I love them, but don't try to change everyones mind on this board about a topic by posting false information, or being serious about something so laughable to the majority.  Its o.k. to criticize things like the govt, artwork, city spending, etc....but only to a point.  There is a time to move on, and accept what is already set in stone.  Work on the future, and making that right, rather than splintering the present.  Some people just need to realize that everyone is different, and everyone has a different opinion on what is acceptable and what looks good, and what doesnt look so good, or isn't acceptable....but that's what this forum is for...Discussing those things. 

I'm completely open to good conversation, about anything.  Some threads don't deserve to be factual based (which is a good thing), some threads should be about people and their views on different things.  Things like "first fridays...ongoing", "my new house restoration", and "what makes the best back yard?" are great threads.  We just need to make sure that factual based threads, remain factual.  A good example is the "Official: Kauffman Performing Arts Center (Construction)".  There has been much internal discussion on that thread, and many different viewpoints....all backed by fact, and all accepted amongst the various posters (regardless of their stances).  There is no reason for anyone to knowingly throw down false facts and figures, and disregard the true facts (as in many sports threads, which inevitably have a slanted stance).  That is easily what taints this forum the most (The failure to post verified facts, and accept known facts, or change an opinion based on fact).  I know I post some seriously harsh stuff towards people (at times), but I'll also guarentee that at least 94% of what I post, I have checked for errors.  If I torch somebody, its because they haven't done their research...and I have.  Its not because they don't deserve to voice their opinion, its because they need to learn to accept when they are wrong, regardless of their final opinion.  Period.
Last edited by im2kull on Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes?

Post by beautyfromashes »

Why don't you let posters tag their posts as development related or just banter.  Then, the readers could filter to just see the develoment posts or all the posts.  Either this or you could just have people rate the posts on a relancy rating system, 1-5 stars.
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