Fixing the KC Zoo (ongoing)

[JivecitySTL]

Actually, I never said that 700,000 people is the threshold that separates classes of metropolitan areas. I said that in response to whoever said that Omaha can't possibly compete with KC, yet KC can somehow compete with STL.

Right, so under that same assumption...StL cannot possibly compete with Dallas. Population is not everything...enough said.

Whoever said that STL can compete with Dallas?

[cdschofield]

That's funny, I don't recall ever suggesting that St. Louis is comparable to any of those cities, I'm not really sure why you felt it was relevant to the discussion at hand.

I think STL does compare with these cities. There is a threshold where all cities have pretty much the same stores, restaurants, stadiums, arenas, etc. with exceptions of course. And at some point it just becomes redundant based on the size of the city. Like it or not, the majority of a city's population, suburbanites, only care about their own little suburban world which are pretty much the same in any city.

I'm originally from STL and I know where you're coming from but a large majority of a citiy's population is more concerned whether they get a Cheescake Factory in their nearby lifestyle center than the size of a city.

[GRID]

Jive, you crack me up. KC is much more like StL than it is Omaha and you know it.

KC is on the bottom of the "big cities" list sure, but it's on the list, Omaha is not and will not be for a long time.

Once a city is as large as KC or StL they offer about the same quality of life and attractions even when they are two or three times the size of each other. It takes "Millions" more residents to really make the city that much different lik Chicago or La.

[JivecitySTL]

If it takes "millions" to make a city much different, then why is Omaha so much different than KC? Seriously, I stand by my analogy-- the differences between Omaha and KC are roughly equal to the differences between KC and STL. I'm sorry, this is the truth. Hundreds of thousands of people do influence the life of urban areas.

[KCPowercat]

Jive...do you think Phoenix and STL can play on the same field? Do you think they have similiar attractions/amenities? If not what is different.

[JivecitySTL]

Phoenix has attractions?

[KCPowercat]

I'll ask again.

Jive...do you think Phoenix and STL can play on the same field? Do you think they have similiar attractions/amenities? If not what is different.

[trailerkid]

He knows his argument is stupid...that's why he won't directly address it using different cities.

Once you start talking about "big cities" you cannot draw imaginary lines at 700,000. Dallas and StL(used to) both have major airports, major corporate HQ, major shopping centers, major tourist attractions, etc. City population matters less when comparing big dogs. For example, NYC and Chicago are often compared even though NYC megaplex completely dwarfs Chicago in population. The comparisons happen with the big dogs regardless of any fabricated law of population figures.

BTW, Omaha is comparable to KC-- just not favorably for Omaha and that's why everyone disputes it.

[eomaha.com]

All this Omaha talk again!

No... Omaha isn't in the same class as KC... it's in a class by itself! :p

I can't think of any other metro under 1 million which has as much going on as Omaha (Des Moines is doing great things as well!)... be happy you've got some prospering neighbors. The region is doing very well.

As for comparisons... Omaha does make a few. It is headquarters to 5 Fortune 500 companies (what's even more amazing... all the companies that started in Omaha, until in some cases others 'broke' them... like your own Aquila Energy... Enron... other well known companies incl. First Data and Level 3 Communications in Denver) ... that is at least as many as KC. It has 2 medical schools (not just satellite campuses) with large hospitals of their own. It has that incredible zoo which is such a popular topic of discussion. It's new performing arts center might no look quite as impressive... but it seats more people! ... Omaha is also home to the nations largest community playhouse, meaning we don't just watch the arts... we participate! ... and while it may not have major league professional sports... it does have an incredible collegiate sports atmosphere (when's the last time KC has had 15,000 watching UMKC... or 14,000 watching a Blades hockey game?), among other things playing host over 50 years to the NCAA College World Series. And while KC people wouldn't notice... Omahans certainly have noticed the shopping and restaurant gap quickly narrowing between Omaha and KC (if you're into that kind of chain/namebrand stuff)... Des Moines may be a bigger threat to sales dollars now with Jordan Creek opening soon. And no... we don't have anywhere near as many clubs for a young person to enjoy... but we have been mentioned in nearly every major paper and music publication in the nation as being one of the nations hottest new music scenes.

Anyway... no doubt KC is way ahead of Omaha is so many ways. But Omaha is a fine small city in its own right... with MANY big city amenities.

[JivecitySTL]

And that's what I've been saying all along guys. I never thought Omaha could compete with KC. KC has it all over Omaha (although Omaha is a nice town for sure). This wasn't my argument.

As for Phoenix vs. STL-- there's very little that Phoenix has over St. Louis. Population doesn't necessarily correllate with coolness or urbanity. I'm an urban freak, so my definition of which cities are better than others is dictated by my love for hardcore urban cities.

[trailerkid]

I'm an urban freak, so my definition of which cities are better than others is dictated by my love for hardcore urban cities.

So why didn't you say that in the first place?

[KCPowercat]

exactly...instead you stated that because STL is 700,000 metro bigger than KC it was obviously better.

Since you're such an urban freak, let's talk about downtown populations.....not CWE, DOWNTOWN baby....I say that is the coolest city.

[JivecitySTL]

St. Louis reached a level that KC, Phoenix, Dallas nor a bunch of other growing cities will likely never reach. Built with utlra-high density, and very urban infrastructure. So much to work with, it's overwhelming.

I don't know why we have digressed to discussing St. Louis's many wonderful attributes.

[KCPowercat]

nobody's saying STL doesn't have a lot of good qualities and things to work with...the point of it being 700k bigger makes it better was laughable....the population density of it's urbanized areas to KC's is very comparable......we also have a lot to work with.

not sure how it went down this road but Omaha zoo conversation was boring....

[JivecitySTL]

You're right. I really hope I don't come off as a KC-hater. I think it is a very unique city in its own right. Nobody can ever say it isn't original. It has a wonderful jazz history, beautiful fountains and boulevards and excellent barbeque. It's easy to get sucked into "mine is bigger than yours" debates, but all in all, our passion for our hometowns is really what matters. I'm no hater!

btw, the reason I joined this forum is because I enjoy the discussions with KC forumers. You're a great bunch of guys. Seriously.

[KCPowercat]

Jive you know I think you are a good guy....just good natured back and forth.

[chrizow]

st. louis has amazing architecture. i'd love to see all those vacant neighborhoods come back.

i remember one bizarre day that i WALKED from union station to U City. (can't tell you what streets). i think we saw maybe 20 people the entire time, 18 of them crackheads.

STL is definitely more "hardcore urban" on par with baltimore and detroit in terms of the "amazing structures with no people around" factor. now that STL has the ball rolling with redevelopment, that is going to change. it'll probably never be 800K+ again, but it'll still kick ass.

STL has a lot of things better than KC: public transit, zoo, really old buildings, old dense suburbs, and forest park kills swope park. STL has a couple of really cool nightclubs that KC can't really compete with (yet).

KC has things better than STL: shopping. some kinds of food. visual arts scene. possibily a better music presence if you include lawrence (which i do). less traffic. cheaper. less crime.

really, if STL wasn't in missouri we'd probably compare ourselves to it 500% less.

honestly i think of KC as a Baby Dallas with more old buildings. both have cool urban spots, a shitload of sparkling suburbs, a distinct southern (cough cough *hick*) vibe. i'll probably get blasted for that comparison, but i dont think it's too far off. if KC had 5 million people right now it would probably be dallas.

[cdschofield]

honestly i think of KC as a Baby Dallas with more old buildings. both have cool urban spots, a shitload of sparkling suburbs, a distinct southern (cough cough *hick*) vibe. i'll probably get blasted for that comparison, but i dont think it's too far off. if KC had 5 million people right now it would probably be dallas.

I've always thought that and that is how I describe it sometimes to people that have never been to KC. KCI is even a baby DFWI. I think a lot of the development around KC during the 70's and 80's was Dallas inspired.

KC has such a split personality. A good example of old Midwestern urban neighborhoods and a good example of Western/Southwestern suburban neighborhoods.

[KCDevin]

Jive, you just seem like a Devin hater I guess I can get really annoying sometimes...[/quote]

[eomaha.com]

On the subject of Phoenix (since it was mentioned several times) ... I visit many times as my parents and sister live there. I don't think it even remotely compares with KC. So no... population shouldn't be an overriding attribute in considering one cities standing compared against anothers.