Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

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Highlander
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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by Highlander » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:19 pm

earthling wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:45 am
The broader comparison to make with US/Europe is that the US doesn't teach much etiquette in schools while Europe generally does. Americans value individuality a bit too much over valuing impact on society compared to Europe and especially Asia. It impacts many behaviors and Americans are poor at noticing the impact they make on others (varies by city), even like a line at Costco food court that runs into middle of aisle instead of along wall. edit: Or standing to the right on an escalator to let others pass through.
I don't remember being taught much etiquette in the driving classes I took but there is no way you can pass a European driving exam without extensive preparation and classes. They want to make sure that you can do more than just drive a vehicle down a street. My driving exam was well over an hour long. Not only did you have to make several maneuvers flawlessly, but any exhibition of not knowing the rules or being rude or aggressive (and even driving too slowly on highways or in the left lane) will bring the test to an immediate end with a failure. On top of that, Europeans have an attitude that they are a cog in a bigger machine and everything works best if you follow the rules. Not something found in the US where "I" am by far the most important individual on the planet. But go to southern Europe, particularly Italy and Greece and the driving etiquette changes dramatically. There is a much greater sense of impatience there (but not so much the outright rudeness you find in the US) and the rules kind of evaporate and are replaced by a kind of controlled chaos. My first driving experience south of Rome was trying to make a left hand turn from behind a stop sign on the exit ramp of the Autostrada onto a busy secondary highway. After the 50 cars behind me started honking, I realized that if I didn't pull out into the 60 mph traffic with faith that the oncoming traffic would stop, we would be at the intersection all day. I pulled out, the cross traffic stopped.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by chrizow » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:47 pm

We were in France this summer and drove back and forth from Paris to the Brittany coast. While I agree that, by and large, the other motorists were much more highly-skilled (we did not see any asinine maneuvers or sheer incompetence) the motorists drive quite fast and are also very impatient. This was true on the main highways but, especially, on the tiny country roads that are functionally one lane wide (but have two-way traffic).

Yesterday, we were in KC driving from Liberty back to the city during the blinding rainstorm. The driving behavior I was seeing was beyond belief. Despite the extremely limited visibility and poor road conditions (we hydroplaned in our AWD Subaru Outback a few times) there were tons of motorists going 15+ over the speed limit, driving without their headlights on, passing every which way without turn signals, etc. We even spent a few miles behind an 18-wheeler who was weaving in and out of lanes without signalling. It was unreal.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by beautyfromashes » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:28 pm

It’s different when half your people traveling are moving by train and semis are limited. Driving in Europe is much more expensive, from very high taxes to cost of an automobile to high gas prices. Here any kid working a summer job has a car.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:17 pm

Since about 90% of the cars in Europe are Manual, does having a manual make you more of an attentive and possibly better driver? I mean about 95% of the people in the US do not know how to drive a manual and they are unable to be stolen by most thieves.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by Highlander » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:32 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:17 pm
Since about 90% of the cars in Europe are Manual, does having a manual make you more of an attentive and possibly better driver? I mean about 95% of the people in the US do not know how to drive a manual and they are unable to be stolen by most thieves.
Maybe but a lot of European countries do not allow cell phone use - texting or even having a phone conversation - while driving.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by GRID » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:38 pm

Highlander wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:32 pm
brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:17 pm
Since about 90% of the cars in Europe are Manual, does having a manual make you more of an attentive and possibly better driver? I mean about 95% of the people in the US do not know how to drive a manual and they are unable to be stolen by most thieves.
Maybe but a lot of European countries do not allow cell phone use - texting or even having a phone conversation - while driving.
Europeans in general don't seem to be nearly as attached to their cell phones as Americans. They seem to rarely get them out when socializing. It was refreshing.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by chingon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 pm

Europeans breathe better than Americans do.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:08 pm

And is Road Rage purely an American thing? It seems like more and more people are getting pissed off at drivers and things turn violent pretty quickly so if u did correct a bad driver or u were the bad driver there is a chance u could get hurt in the process

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by GRID » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:07 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:08 pm
And is Road Rage purely an American thing? It seems like more and more people are getting pissed off at drivers and things turn violent pretty quickly so if u did correct a bad driver or u were the bad driver there is a chance u could get hurt in the process
Not according to Youtube. I see road rage all the time in Europe and Australia. I watch several channels related to road rage and dumb driving or crashes lol.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by herrfrank » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:37 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am
Could Drivers Ed just be getting worse? I had a gf from Texas and she was a terrible driver, she would always drive in the Left Lane while people passed her in the Right Lane, I was embarrassed while in the car. I just couldn't take it anymore so I had to basically teach her the rules of the road. Drivers Ed just must be terrible these days, I'm sure very little is taught on the interstate in heavy traffic areas
I do think Drivers Education has worsened. AND I think a lot of younger peeps didn't get any Drivers Ed at all -- many of the urban schools no longer teach it, and almost certainly immigrants from places other than Europe didn't have formalized Drivers Ed.

In the 1980s, driving in the US was comparable (worse, but comparable) to driving in Northern Europe. Now it's more like driving in southern Europe or Russia (which, like China, is a complete free-for-all).

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by flyingember » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:23 pm

I can say with certainty that anyone who thinks drivers education has worsened has no idea.

20 years ago drivers ed wasn't required, you got a permit at 15.5 and a license at 16 and you were done. Since then things have changed.

You can get your instruction permit at 15 now. It requires 40 hours of instruction with 10 at night. You can't practically skip the learners permit and just take the driving test with minimal instruction. Someone must come with you and go on record saying the hours were done. It can't be a brother or sister doing the instruction no matter their age.
See this brochure for who's qualified to do this role (second page) https://dor.mo.gov/forms/4821.pdf

You get the intermediate license age 16-18 after completing 182 days with the instruction permit.
In the first 6 months you can't have multiple under 19s in the car unless they're family. So no carpooling 5 kids to school.
You can't have an alcohol offense. Having that house party at 17 years 9 months and being caught starts a 12 month waiting clock.

You can't get your full license until 18. You need to pass the road test to get the intermediate but the road test results expires after a year. So it looks like if you get your license before 17 you need to retake the road skills test to get the full license. So in some ways this encourages kids to wait to start the process while many are tested twice to validate their skills

And if there's a lot more 18 year olds taking the test now they're going to take it more seriously since it's not for going to a football game, they need to be able to get to work.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by WSPanic » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:53 pm

I heard Europeans shit roses and fart Febreeze.

Do schools offer Driver's Ed any more? I took it during summer school in the late 80's in the Shawnee Mission school district because the insurance discount was pretty good (so my parents required it).

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by FangKC » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:36 pm

Youngsters have it easy today. Try passing your driving test while parallel parking a '70s car (land barge) with bumpers that stuck out a foot from the end of the car. You had no sense of where the edges of the car were.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by shinatoo » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm

The sweet spot on I-70 is the speed limit. Set the cruise at 70 and you almost never have to hit the brakes. Can't explain why but it works. I drive I-70 and I-29 a couple of times a month.
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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by StL_Dan » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:02 pm

shinatoo wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm
The sweet spot on I-70 is the speed limit. Set the cruise at 70 and you almost never have to hit the brakes. Can't explain why but it works. I drive I-70 and I-29 a couple of times a month.
I couldn't agree more. I've driven I-70 back and forth from KC to StL to KC hundreds of time (it seems) since 1988. When I was a college student trying to make the trip from Olathe to StL Co in 3 hours, I'd get so frustrated because I was constantly trying to pass people that were already doing right at or slightly over the speed limit.

This past weekend, I drove down and back for a Cards/Brewers game. I just drove 70 mph the whole way down and back. It's so much more enjoyable watching people doing 80 and 90 trying to shave 10 mins off their trip yet increasing their stress and elevate their blood pressure levels exponentially in the process. I made it in 3.5 hours moving time.

The same process works even better on I-35 north and south between JoCo and downtown and Liberty. Just do the posted speed limit in the middle or right lanes, and you'll discover you reach the destination in great shape maybe 2 or 3 minutes slower than if you weaved through traffic and tailgated people in the left lane trying to get them to move over.

Stress level.....ZERO

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by shinatoo » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:48 pm

StL_Dan wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:02 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm
The sweet spot on I-70 is the speed limit. Set the cruise at 70 and you almost never have to hit the brakes. Can't explain why but it works. I drive I-70 and I-29 a couple of times a month.
I couldn't agree more. I've driven I-70 back and forth from KC to StL to KC hundreds of time (it seems) since 1988. When I was a college student trying to make the trip from Olathe to StL Co in 3 hours, I'd get so frustrated because I was constantly trying to pass people that were already doing right at or slightly over the speed limit.

This past weekend, I drove down and back for a Cards/Brewers game. I just drove 70 mph the whole way down and back. It's so much more enjoyable watching people doing 80 and 90 trying to shave 10 mins off their trip yet increasing their stress and elevate their blood pressure levels exponentially in the process. I made it in 3.5 hours moving time.

The same process works even better on I-35 north and south between JoCo and downtown and Liberty. Just do the posted speed limit in the middle or right lanes, and you'll discover you reach the destination in great shape maybe 2 or 3 minutes slower than if you weaved through traffic and tailgated people in the left lane trying to get them to move over.

Stress level.....ZERO
My stress level has dropped and my quality of life has increased dramatically since discovering this life hack.
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by warwickland » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:56 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:32 pm
Just drove this weekend and I'm so done with this stretch of interstate. Its an absolute nightmare to drive. To many people drive in the left lane and refuse to get over so u have to pass in right lane. Truck passing is horrible on this stretch also. I really think Trucks shouldn't even be allowed to pass on this stretch because of the dangerous conditions they create.

I was in Europe last week, we had a rental car and I was amazed how everyone is such great drivers. Everyone drives in Right and passes in left and trucks rarely passed at all, they all seemed to maintain the same speed. Everything just seemed to run so much smoother in Europe, why is it so bad here?
it's easily the worst route out of st. louis, excepting the chicago end of I-55, although drivers just seem more considerate (or decisive, i mean) in illinois, whereas i feel like there's almost always a close call on I-70 in missouri. it's like driving in the southeast. i'm driving to kc this weekend for the first time in over three years...i think part of it was that i just got sick of I-70 in missouri, when i can just hit the cruise control to louisville or something and coast through nothingville indiana.

the truck traffic really seems to disperse (eastbound) at st. louis, until it picks up to a horrible level driving east out of chicago again.
Last edited by warwickland on Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by warwickland » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:58 pm

shinatoo wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:17 am
AllThingsKC wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm
Perhaps one thing that would help with passing would be making I-70 three lanes between Kansas City and St. Louis. I have wanted to see that for a long time. I-70 is probably the most important part of Missouri's highway system and KC and STL are large enough cities (with Columbia in the middle) to possibly warrant an extra lane each way.

I hate driving to places like Springfield or Jefferson City that have no direct interstate access from KC. If you think I-70 is bad, US 50 and Missouri 13 are much worse and aren't even up to interstate standards.
If you think three lanes will help, go spend some time driving around Texas. Spoiler: It doesn't help. Stupid drivers in cars and semis still find ways to block all lanes.
but, that third lane does help in illinois on the way to chicago, no doubt.
WSPanic wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:43 am
brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:02 am
flyingember wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:47 am
The only thing three lanes would do is let the big trucks drive 60 in the middle lane too.

The state widened US 36 to keep traffic off of I-70 coming from Chicago. It's why it's called the Chicago to Kansas City expressway.
I don't think it would matter, the shorter/faster/easier way to get from KC to Chicago is taking 35 to 80 then 88 or 80 in Illinois, If you took 70 from here to Chicago you would actually be going a little out of the way since St Louis/70 goes southward a little
I'll grant you easier - maybe faster - but definitely not shorter. I-70 and 36 HWY are the two shortest routes to Chicago from KC. But I will always take Des Moines/I-80. The other two suck. They all take about the same time.
I take US 36 and then US 61 down when driving between northern/nw missouri and st. louis...it's just as fast as 70, but no screaming at tractor trailers and left laners. i'm not sure why anyone would cut through st. louis to go to chicago from kc...

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by StL_Dan » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:30 pm

warwickland wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:58 pm
i'm not sure why anyone would cut through st. louis to go to chicago from kc...
About 6 or 7 years ago, my wife and I drove to the Valparaiso area of Indiana out of Olathe. We took 35 to 80 to Chicagoland. For grins (and to stop for some Lion's Choice) we came back KC using 55 / 270 / 70.

If we hadn't had some ridiculously good roasted beef sandwiches, the route back would have rated even more horribly than the front end.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by StL_Dan » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:31 pm

shinatoo wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:48 pm
StL_Dan wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:02 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm
The sweet spot on I-70 is the speed limit. Set the cruise at 70 and you almost never have to hit the brakes. Can't explain why but it works. I drive I-70 and I-29 a couple of times a month.
I couldn't agree more. I've driven I-70 back and forth from KC to StL to KC hundreds of time (it seems) since 1988. When I was a college student trying to make the trip from Olathe to StL Co in 3 hours, I'd get so frustrated because I was constantly trying to pass people that were already doing right at or slightly over the speed limit.

This past weekend, I drove down and back for a Cards/Brewers game. I just drove 70 mph the whole way down and back. It's so much more enjoyable watching people doing 80 and 90 trying to shave 10 mins off their trip yet increasing their stress and elevate their blood pressure levels exponentially in the process. I made it in 3.5 hours moving time.

The same process works even better on I-35 north and south between JoCo and downtown and Liberty. Just do the posted speed limit in the middle or right lanes, and you'll discover you reach the destination in great shape maybe 2 or 3 minutes slower than if you weaved through traffic and tailgated people in the left lane trying to get them to move over.

Stress level.....ZERO
My stress level has dropped and my quality of life has increased dramatically since discovering this life hack.
8)

And, it works best during rush hour.

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