Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

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Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Just drove this weekend and I'm so done with this stretch of interstate. Its an absolute nightmare to drive. To many people drive in the left lane and refuse to get over so u have to pass in right lane. Truck passing is horrible on this stretch also. I really think Trucks shouldn't even be allowed to pass on this stretch because of the dangerous conditions they create.

I was in Europe last week, we had a rental car and I was amazed how everyone is such great drivers. Everyone drives in Right and passes in left and trucks rarely passed at all, they all seemed to maintain the same speed. Everything just seemed to run so much smoother in Europe, why is it so bad here?

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by swid » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:47 pm

Driver licensing in most European countries is considerably more time-consuming, difficult to pass, expensive, and...actually teaches you how to drive compared to what passes for driver testing and licensing here.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by Highlander » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:01 pm

swid wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:47 pm
Driver licensing in most European countries is considerably more time-consuming, difficult to pass, expensive, and...actually teaches you how to drive compared to what passes for driver testing and licensing here.
Having taken and passed the British test, I will attest to that. I was pretty stressed about taking it as most people fail the first time and many fail 2 or 3 times. I love driving in northern Europe relative to the US - almost everyone follows the rules. The fines for speeding can be draconian in Europe. More than 25% over the speed limit is a month of gross pay in Norway plus a loss of your license for like 4 months.

I always take I-70 as far as Columbia (still pretty dicey) and then take some Ozark highway further south the rest of the way. It's not a fun stretch of road to drive.
Last edited by Highlander on Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by AllThingsKC » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm

Perhaps one thing that would help with passing would be making I-70 three lanes between Kansas City and St. Louis. I have wanted to see that for a long time. I-70 is probably the most important part of Missouri's highway system and KC and STL are large enough cities (with Columbia in the middle) to possibly warrant an extra lane each way.

I hate driving to places like Springfield or Jefferson City that have no direct interstate access from KC. If you think I-70 is bad, US 50 and Missouri 13 are much worse and aren't even up to interstate standards.
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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by shinatoo » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:17 am

AllThingsKC wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm
Perhaps one thing that would help with passing would be making I-70 three lanes between Kansas City and St. Louis. I have wanted to see that for a long time. I-70 is probably the most important part of Missouri's highway system and KC and STL are large enough cities (with Columbia in the middle) to possibly warrant an extra lane each way.

I hate driving to places like Springfield or Jefferson City that have no direct interstate access from KC. If you think I-70 is bad, US 50 and Missouri 13 are much worse and aren't even up to interstate standards.
If you think three lanes will help, go spend some time driving around Texas. Spoiler: It doesn't help. Stupid drivers in cars and semis still find ways to block all lanes.
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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by flyingember » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:47 am

The only thing three lanes would do is let the big trucks drive 60 in the middle lane too.

The state widened US 36 to keep traffic off of I-70 coming from Chicago. It's why it's called the Chicago to Kansas City expressway.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by earthling » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:49 am

Isn't surprising that KC/STL stretch of I70 isn't 3 lanes given that MO is mostly a Tea Party state. MO ranks 47th for gas tax so the standards are lower overall. KS ranks 32.

https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasolin ... ates-2017/

Northland has mostly 2 lane highways compared to rest of metro and it's pretty annoying to drive up there. Many drive at or below speed limit in left lane.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:58 am

shinatoo wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:17 am
AllThingsKC wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:45 pm
Perhaps one thing that would help with passing would be making I-70 three lanes between Kansas City and St. Louis. I have wanted to see that for a long time. I-70 is probably the most important part of Missouri's highway system and KC and STL are large enough cities (with Columbia in the middle) to possibly warrant an extra lane each way.

I hate driving to places like Springfield or Jefferson City that have no direct interstate access from KC. If you think I-70 is bad, US 50 and Missouri 13 are much worse and aren't even up to interstate standards.
If you think three lanes will help, go spend some time driving around Texas. Spoiler: It doesn't help. Stupid drivers in cars and semis still find ways to block all lanes.
This, i just don't think people know how to properly drive. A lot of the times the biggest violators of Left Hand driving and not letting cars pass are young college kids going home for the weekend. In Europe you can at least flash your brights and people will get over, if you do it here people seem like they just slow down even more or are totally clueless and do not see the flashing of brights

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:02 am

flyingember wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:47 am
The only thing three lanes would do is let the big trucks drive 60 in the middle lane too.

The state widened US 36 to keep traffic off of I-70 coming from Chicago. It's why it's called the Chicago to Kansas City expressway.
I don't think it would matter, the shorter/faster/easier way to get from KC to Chicago is taking 35 to 80 then 88 or 80 in Illinois, If you took 70 from here to Chicago you would actually be going a little out of the way since St Louis/70 goes southward a little

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by WSPanic » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:43 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:02 am
flyingember wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:47 am
The only thing three lanes would do is let the big trucks drive 60 in the middle lane too.

The state widened US 36 to keep traffic off of I-70 coming from Chicago. It's why it's called the Chicago to Kansas City expressway.
I don't think it would matter, the shorter/faster/easier way to get from KC to Chicago is taking 35 to 80 then 88 or 80 in Illinois, If you took 70 from here to Chicago you would actually be going a little out of the way since St Louis/70 goes southward a little
I'll grant you easier - maybe faster - but definitely not shorter. I-70 and 36 HWY are the two shortest routes to Chicago from KC. But I will always take Des Moines/I-80. The other two suck. They all take about the same time.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by GRID » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:48 am

People in the USA are just TERRIBLE drivers. It does not matter what part of the country, how wide the highways are etc. Some are worse than others. For example, it seems like people in the Midwest and south are far more distracted with cell phones, don’t use signals and are just more oblivious and clueless, but in general people are just bad drivers everywhere. I would agree that Texas is one of the worst. I-35 south of Dallas is just brutal with left lane hogs.

I-95 between Richmond and Philly is six to eight lanes wide in the rural areas and way too many people are forced to pass on the right. It’s a cluster F. In the mountain areas of MD, VA ,WV etc, the general rule is the faster traffic is to the right and when you get truck passing lanes, all the fast traffic jumps to those truck lanes to get around all the slow traffic in the left lanes so you have 70-80mph traffic dodging semi trucks going 30 mph up and down the steep grades.

And it’s not the semi trucks. Sure, once in a while on two lane highways, they take a bit to pass each other, but for the most part, they are not the problem. The problem is when trucks have to pass very slow cars and then they get caught up in the left lanes.

I drove around Europe (UK, France and Netherlands) this summer and the way people drive alone makes me want to move there. People drive fast, but attentive without distraction. They always signal, they always immediately move over to the next lane after passing and each lane is progressively faster, always. This keeps big trucks to the right. They are able to get twice the traffic through with less lanes there. It’s incredible.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by rxlexi » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:05 am

I drove around Europe (UK, France and Netherlands) this summer and the way people drive alone makes me want to move there. People drive fast, but attentive without distraction. They always signal, they always immediately move over to the next lane after passing and each lane is progressively faster, always. This keeps big trucks to the right. They are able to get twice the traffic through with less lanes there. It’s incredible.
I think the issue is very fixable (as are DUIs). Put simply: the licensing system, enforcement of violations and punishment must be far more draconian. It must be more difficult to obtain a license, and much easier and more costly to lose one. Similar to Europe.

This is difficult and borderline unfair however, in a country that has spent 50 years building cities almost exclusively around the automobile, and makes it very difficult to use other modes of transportation.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am

GRID wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:48 am

I drove around Europe (UK, France and Netherlands) this summer and the way people drive alone makes me want to move there. People drive fast, but attentive without distraction. They always signal, they always immediately move over to the next lane after passing and each lane is progressively faster, always. This keeps big trucks to the right. They are able to get twice the traffic through with less lanes there. It’s incredible.
I might always rent a car in Europe from now on because it was a pure joy, it was like an efficient well oiled machine, hell even the petrol stations off the highway are awesome, it was so nice to be able to have a cafe/bar inside a petrol station, the ones in Austria were even nicer with upscale hot food in them.

Could Drivers Ed just be getting worse? I had a gf from Texas and she was a terrible driver, she would always drive in the Left Lane while people passed her in the Right Lane, I was embarrassed while in the car. I just couldn't take it anymore so I had to basically teach her the rules of the road. Drivers Ed just must be terrible these days, I'm sure very little is taught on the interstate in heavy traffic areas

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by GRID » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:19 am

rxlexi wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:05 am
I drove around Europe (UK, France and Netherlands) this summer and the way people drive alone makes me want to move there. People drive fast, but attentive without distraction. They always signal, they always immediately move over to the next lane after passing and each lane is progressively faster, always. This keeps big trucks to the right. They are able to get twice the traffic through with less lanes there. It’s incredible.
I think the issue is very fixable (as are DUIs). Put simply: the licensing system, enforcement of violations and punishment must be far more draconian. It must be more difficult to obtain a license, and much easier and more costly to lose one. Similar to Europe.

This is difficult and borderline unfair however, in a country that has spent 50 years building cities almost exclusively around the automobile, and makes it very difficult to use other modes of transportation.
There are many people that know how to drive in America, but when even 20% don’t know how, then it won’t work. I drive a lot all around the country and it seems like most of the offenders are just in-experienced drivers such as young drivers that have not been driving long enough to figure out some of these basics and urban drivers that just don’t drive enough to know. So high school and college kids etc. Also when people from places like NYC, Philly, DC etc get on the interstates, they don’t know the rules either because they just don’t drive enough and have never been taught the rules. But in Europe people don’t drive much either and they have a far more extensive transit infrastructure than even the east coast and yet they can properly drive when they have to. You will get pulled over in Europe for not moving over a lot faster than for speeding. Other than speed cameras, I’m not even sure they enforce the speed limits, but they do enforce proper lane use.

We can save a lot of money by making getting a license far more rigorous because as soon as you add another lane to a highway in America, the slow drivers move over to the left one more lane making the new lane extremely in-efficient.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by GRID » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am
GRID wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:48 am

I drove around Europe (UK, France and Netherlands) this summer and the way people drive alone makes me want to move there. People drive fast, but attentive without distraction. They always signal, they always immediately move over to the next lane after passing and each lane is progressively faster, always. This keeps big trucks to the right. They are able to get twice the traffic through with less lanes there. It’s incredible.
I might always rent a car in Europe from now on because it was a pure joy, it was like an efficient well oiled machine, hell even the petrol stations off the highway are awesome, it was so nice to be able to have a cafe/bar inside a petrol station, the ones in Austria were even nicer with upscale hot food in them.

Could Drivers Ed just be getting worse? I had a gf from Texas and she was a terrible driver, she would always drive in the Left Lane while people passed her in the Right Lane, I was embarrassed while in the car. I just couldn't take it anymore so I had to basically teach her the rules of the road. Drivers Ed just must be terrible these days, I'm sure very little is taught on the interstate in heavy traffic areas
The highway petro stations in Europe are nice. That's quite common on the east coast even on regular highways to have slip ramps to quickly get gas and food and get back on the highway. They do have all the big stops along places like the Jersey turnpike here too.

Speaking of the Jersey turnpike, if you ever drive between Philly and NYC, use the truck lanes. You will be amazed at how well traffic flows when you take most of the cars and their bad drivers out of the equation. Even with mostly trucks, the truck lanes flow much smoother and you will move at a higher rate of speed on average with less lane changes. Most truck drivers actually drive quite well when they don't have cars to deal with. You would think it would be the other way around

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by earthling » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:45 am

The broader comparison to make with US/Europe is that the US doesn't teach much etiquette in schools while Europe generally does. Americans value individuality a bit too much over valuing impact on society compared to Europe and especially Asia. It impacts many behaviors and Americans are poor at noticing the impact they make on others (varies by city), even like a line at Costco food court that runs into middle of aisle instead of along wall. edit: Or standing to the right on an escalator to let others pass through.
Last edited by earthling on Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by flyingember » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:49 am

WSPanic wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:43 am
brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:02 am

I don't think it would matter, the shorter/faster/easier way to get from KC to Chicago is taking 35 to 80 then 88 or 80 in Illinois, If you took 70 from here to Chicago you would actually be going a little out of the way since St Louis/70 goes southward a little
I'll grant you easier - maybe faster - but definitely not shorter. I-70 and 36 HWY are the two shortest routes to Chicago from KC. But I will always take Des Moines/I-80. The other two suck. They all take about the same time.
It depends on the time you leave if it's faster. CKC gives a way to avoid peak hour traffic in Des Moines and St. Louis.
I bet US 36 is more consistent across the day even though off peak they're very similar in terms of travel time.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by TheLastGentleman » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:16 am

The more I hear about europe the more I want to move there

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by scooterj » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:19 pm

I've done the KC-Chicago drive several times and 36 (CKC) is definitely my favorite route. Much less traffic, much less stress.

I-70 needs to be completely dug out and started over. There's no other way to fix it.

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Re: Interstate 70 KC to St Louis

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:29 pm

scooterj wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:19 pm
I've done the KC-Chicago drive several times and 36 (CKC) is definitely my favorite route. Much less traffic, much less stress.

I-70 needs to be completely dug out and started over. There's no other way to fix it.
We were thinking yesterday how great the Hyperloop would be from KC to St Louis, or maybe just increased/faster train service. There are too many stops that slow it down, KC to Chicago via Train is only about 100 minutes longer than KC to STL via train

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