Pet licensing sweep

[drumatix]

http://btoellner.typepad.com/my_weblog/ ... tions.html

Hmmm... so they're going door to door now, looking for pets & dishing out fines... but it's not a revenue grab. Right.

I found a hanger on my door from animal control threatening a $75 minimum fine if I do not license my pets, based on the check-boxed line item on the tag from officer #27453 stating "We have observed animal evidence at this residence." Now, I have no idea what this evidence could be, since I have no pets.

Anyone dealt with this yet? Do I somehow need to prove that I have no pets (har) or will a fine be automatically sent to me if I don't register this (these?) non-existent pet(s) within the next 15 days? What a load of crap.

[drumatix]

Update: Animal Control called back within an hour or so, and they claim that they are not mailing me a ticket based upon the supposed animal evidence their officers observed. Riveting stuff, I know, but maybe it'll save someone from digging around for a working animal control number (the one on the door hangers is wrong) & generally from worrying about getting fined.

[chrizow]

maybe it'll save someone from digging around for a working animal control number (the one on the door hangers is wrong)

  idiots!

i'm not opening my door to these yokels, nor am i going to register our dog with the city.  stupid. 

i'm with toellner on this - let's see if they "target" country club or armour hills or meyer circle with these license-checks...

[zonk]

This is just another reason why KCMO City govt BLOWS!  Dysfunctional from the top all the way to the bottom.

[jdubwaldo]

You have to be kidding me.  Isn't this some kind of an unreasonable search?! 

[aknowledgeableperson]

It was probably around 15 years ago when the city last did this.  Before this big city-wide sweep of pets the city's records of pet ownership was quite a mess.  One of the ways to encourage pet licensing was to provide free rabies shots to the pets.  Anyway, a private company was performing the canvasing but at least in my neighborhood the company missed many a pet.  The long-and-short of it, within a few years the records were a mess again.

Don't know if other cities the size of KCMO has this problem.  If they don't then what do they do that KCMO doesn't? 

[jdubwaldo]

Seems like a completely unreasonable revenue grab to me, along with the drivers license checks.

[aknowledgeableperson]

You have to be kidding me.  Isn't this some kind of an unreasonable search?! 

Seems like a completely unreasonable revenue grab to me, along with the drivers license checks.

I just had to laugh about these posts.
Unreasonable search?  They, like anyone else, are allowed to go to your front door and knock.  Hear a dog bark, see a cat in the window, that is not unreasonable search.
Drivers license checks?  Just like having checkpoints for DWI's.  Besides, look at the number of unlicensed drivers involved in traffic accidents, many fatal.  Get them off the road.
Revenue Grab?  Sure is.  Given the city's financial shape and you living in the city maybe you should be glad the city is trying to increase its revenues.

[chrizow]

i don't think the pet license check is reasonable at all.  i dont know if it's unconstitutional, but i think you could probably make a decent argument that it is - and i would probably make such an argument to any animal control employee unfortunate enough to knock on my door. 

i could be wrong here (recollection of crim law is hazy!), but i feel like the police can't just come look in your windows (without reasonable suspicion) to catch you doing something illegal, or knock on your door to ask if you have a driver's license, or ask if you've paid your taxes.  i suppose it's animal control conducting the "pet licensing" sweeps and not KCPD, but animal control is still a state actor i would imagine. 

[taxi]

If they show up and say your dog needs a license, just say "That's not a dog, that's two midgets in a fur suit!"

credit: I learned that one from el extendo.

[aknowledgeableperson]

i could be wrong here (recollection of crim law is hazy!), but i feel like the police can't just come look in your windows (without reasonable suspicion) to catch you doing something illegal, or knock on your door to ask if you have a driver's license, or ask if you've paid your taxes.

Looking into windows would be "in plain sight", in other words a warrant is not needed.  That's my take.
And as long as "all" houses or residences are checked then that would be like stops conducted by police for DWI's.  Again, that's my take.

If it is not legal I sure it would have been stopped by now with somebody filing for a restraining order, like a defense lawyer who got tagged for having an unlicensed pet via this method.

[chrizow]

yeah, i dont think it's actually illegal, but i do think it's a pretty clear step that direction and that it's lame.

[jdubwaldo]

If it is not legal I sure it would have been stopped by now with somebody filing for a restraining order, like a defense lawyer who got tagged for having an unlicensed pet via this method.

This absolutely will happen.  If they come to our house I'm going to play it by ear based on my mood.  Options are:
A. Not answer the door
B. Answer with dogs barking then proceed to argue they are invading my privacy/civil liberties.  
Probably the latter just to have a little fun.  

Yes Mr Knowledge, I'm happy the city is raising $, they obviously need to, but I'd rather they raise the etax on me, personally than scope out my house with binoculars and see me taking my dogs for walks.  

People are also forgetting another important point.  If the person is over their limit on pets, AC will take them directly to the pound.  And, 5 days later they will put them down....  Yes, if someone has 100 cats is this appropriate, yes.  But someone is one over and this is what happens?  I'm not so sure about that.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Yes Mr Knowledge, I'm happy the city is raising $, they obviously need to, but I'd rather they raise the etax on me, personally than scope out my house with binoculars and see me taking my dogs for walks. 

Seriously doubt the city has resources to do this with every citizen.  Unless you feel particularly targeted.  Do you have this feeling you are being watched by someone all of the time?

[jdubwaldo]

Are you being serious?  No, of course not and this was not a literal statement.  I'm trying to point out how ridiculous what they are doing is.

[midtown guy]

I'm certainly no lawyer, but it sure seems illegal. Think about if they tried to do door-to-door sweeps on anything else and whether or not this would be considered legal?  What do you think the reaction would be if they were doing door-to-door sweeps looking for illegal weapons, drugs, or illegal immigrants?  Coming on someone's property looking for a crime they might be committing with no reason at all (heck, 1/2 the doors they knock on don't even own pets).  While it may not have happened yet, eventually someone is going to file a suit against them and then whatever revenue they've gained they will lose dealing with their little court battle.  This is very different from sobriety check points even because at least in those cases you're driving on public roads....there is nothing public about them coming on my front porch.

On top of the possible illegality of this, and the complete waste of city resources (they're using my tax dollars to pay for this?!), but the other problem is that they're going up to these homes, finding unlicensed pets, and socking people with $75 fines for each pet. A lot of people in this economy don't have $150,$225, or $300 to pay in fines -- so they're relinquishing pets -- so then, instead of collecting the fines, we're paying to haul the animals down to the city pound, feed them for 5 days, and then killing them because the pound is full. It's ridiculous.

There are hundreds of animal welfare groups in this city that would have been happy to work with the city on this -- but they have decided they don't want anyone's help and just want to try to punish people for breaking a marginal law. This is exactly the type of ignorance that has caused so many people to not want to live in this city over the past 40 years and flee town.  And all the while, the entire city council and the mayor have done nothing....

[aknowledgeableperson]

Are you being serious?  No, of course not and this was not a literal statement.  I'm trying to point out how ridiculous what they are doing is.

You must be in a state of denial about your paranoia.

[jdubwaldo]

You must be in a state of denial about your paranoia.

  You know me too well don't you? 
Give me a break.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I'm certainly no lawyer, but it sure seems illegal.

KCMO has done this before without any legal penalties and other cities have also performed such a task.  This current action is not unique.

[drumatix]

Revenue Grab?  Sure is.  Given the city's financial shape and you living in the city maybe you should be glad the city is trying to increase its revenues.

Ha!

Can't afford to pay the salaries of half of your animal control officers?

A. Lay them off

or

B. Figure out some sort of revenue grab scheme

You'd choose 'B', I'm guessing (?), while I'd choose 'A'. Problem solved in either case I suppose.