KCMO Should have...

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KCDevin

KCMO Should have...

Post by KCDevin » Sat Aug 30, 2003 3:57 pm

isn't this why you got banned from ssp? you should leave religion out of city discussions, it puts people between a rock and a hard place.

... no it wasn't.
Why don't we just trash this thread?

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Post by QueSi2Opie » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:54 pm

KCDevin wrote:Why don't we just trash this thread?


Let's trash this discussion before the church of Rome orders another Inquisition :wink:
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Post by SonicBoi » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:34 pm

QueSi2Opie wrote:
KCDevin wrote:Why don't we just trash this thread?


Let's trash this discussion before the church of Rome orders another Inquisition :wink:

I third the motion. All agreed say Aye:
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Post by tat2kc » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:18 pm

Why, oh why, am I going to enter this conversation??? :P

As a gay catholic, I attend Mass at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception weekly with my partner of 15 years. We are most welcome at the church. I am very sure that God loves both of us, and that He blesses our commitment to each other. Regardless of what our so-called religous "leaders" have to say on the subject. The Roman Catholic church used to bless unions between men. You might want to check out the book: Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe"

Anyone can pull out a line or two from the bible to justify everything. It worked with our early fathers when they wiped out the Native American peoples, and used the Bible to justify slavery.

As the Sweet Potato Queen's say: "God is in charge of my soul, and I don't remember seeing your name on the arrangements committee."

I would caution Devin, and others who may have issues with gay or lesbian folk: Please be careful what you say and who you say it to. No matter what your personal beliefs/comfort level is, never ever make someone question their personal worth because of what you may have said. The number one cause of teen suicide is homophobic reaction to gay teens. Their suicide rate is out of sight. Make DAMN sure your kids, or nieces or nephews, or any young person you love understand that you will love and respect them always, whether they are gay or straight. They need to know that you love them for who they are, not who you want them to be.


*jumps off his soapbox* 'nuff said!

:wink:
Are you sure we're talking about the same God here, because yours sounds kind of like a dick.

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Post by StL_Dan » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:22 pm

tat2kc wrote:Make (DARN) sure your kids, or nieces or nephews, or any young person you love understand that you will love and respect them always, whether they are gay or straight. They need to know that you love them for who they are, not who you want them to be.


I will always believe the Bible tells us that God intended mankind to be monogomous, heterosexuals....but that aside, I couldn't agree MORE with the above comment.

WELL said, tat.
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Post by Electric_Cactus » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:50 pm

Tat2kc, with all due respect I'm going to have to disagree with your statement. As a Catholic myself, I have had difficulty with the Church's teachings in the past. Not along the same lines as yours, yet I have struggled nonetheless. The fact remains, however, that even though the Church does not condemn you or any homosexual as a person, it still condemns the acts performed by homosexuals. Of course you are welcome at any Catholic Church. But to say you are truly "Catholic," and at the same time knowingly reject such an important teaching and live your own way, means you are not in full communion with the Church. To say that our "so-called" leaders are wrong, is like a child who rebels against his parents because he doesn't like some of their rules. Who are our leaders then? Just because you disagree with a teaching doesn't make them wrong.

That's just my very humble stance as a Catholic myself.
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Post by Brooksider » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:22 pm

Tat is correct. I find it interesting that the catholic church has only banned same sex unions for the last 600 years. They accepted and performed gay unions twice as long as they have banned them.
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Post by trailerkid » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:43 pm

Electric...are you saying that that you have never strayed from the teachings of Catholicism? If you have, I don't know where you stand to make comments on others contradicting the teachings of the Catholicism..

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Post by Electric_Cactus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:00 am

First, let me assure you there's no attitude or hostility in my comments here. If you read my post closely, you'll see that I admit I've had a difficult time with teachings of the church before. No, I am not perfect and don't purport to be. My statement simply says that one cannot say that God blesses their union in the Church, when the Church does not bless any such union. It is a fact, look it up in the catechism if you like. My comments do not criticize anyone who is gay, either. I have friends who are gay. Again, I said "the church does not condemn anyone who is gay, only their actions." That is not hard to understand. It is a factual statement. That is why he IS correct in saying that he's welcome at church. However, saying "I'm sure God blesses our union," that's like a woman who wants to be a priest, so she simply declares "I'm sure I am a priest in God's eyes," and then she begins saying Mass at some liberal church. Believe you me, it's happened. We can't have a united church with everyone believing whatever they want.

Again, there's no hostility here. I'm not attacking anyone. It always seems that those who disagree with the majority are labeled "attackers," or "haters," or something.
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Post by tat2kc » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:14 am

Of course the church does not officially recognize my union. I know that. Without boring the non-catholics with a bunch of church law and such, I will say that I respectfully disagree with the church's policy on same sex unions. I also disagree with the church's stand on contraception. After much thought, reflection, and many many hours talking with my priest, I came out and accepted who I was.

A committed, loving relationship between two consenting adults is a good thing. Nothing bad, immoral, evil about it.
Are you sure we're talking about the same God here, because yours sounds kind of like a dick.

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Post by Electric_Cactus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:41 am

With that being said, we have establised the issues on both sides of the fence. Now that we've agreed to disagree, maybe we can get back to posting about Kansas City on this board....hehe
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Post by tat2kc » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:03 am

Agreed, Cactus. Actually, this has been the most civilized gay debate I've seen. No bashing or hate! It sure does speak well of the forum members, and KC residents in general!
Are you sure we're talking about the same God here, because yours sounds kind of like a dick.

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Post by StL_Dan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:07 am

SonicBoi wrote:And you know the Bible should only be interpeted as it is read without even thinking about what it could actually mean, not to mention that parts have changed and been lost durring the multiple translations. You can just ignore those facts because the bible you read is exactly as "god's" busy hand wrote it, in american english.


Good points, Sonic.

But I would suggest "women participating in unnatural acts with other women and men doing the same" is pretty straightforward with little lost in traslations.

Just a hunch.
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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:29 am

StL_Dan wrote:Good points, Sonic.

But I would suggest "women participating in unnatural acts with other women and men doing the same" is pretty straightforward with little lost in traslations.

Just a hunch.


Once again, the Bible was written by man's hand, therefore it's man's words...not God's. Unless we want to recognize the Book of Mormons as well? I believe the point was more against random perversion than against true love. This was written in a time when everyone was having sex with everyone (men, women, children, beasts) with absolutely no real affection. Gay marriages should be recognized to prevent sodomy by unmarried couples.
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Post by StL_Dan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:51 am

QueSi2Opie wrote:
StL_Dan wrote:Good points, Sonic.

But I would suggest "women participating in unnatural acts with other women and men doing the same" is pretty straightforward with little lost in traslations.

Just a hunch.


Once again, the Bible was written by man's hand, therefore it's man's words...not God's. Unless we want to recognize the Book of Mormons as well? I believe the point was more against random perversion than against true love. This was written in a time when everyone was having sex with everyone (men, women, children, beasts) with absolutely no real affection. Gay marriages should be recognized to prevent sodomy by unmarried couples.


2 Timothy 3:16
"Everything in the Scriptures is God's Word. All of it (not some of it) is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live."


2 Timothy 4:1&2
"So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you to preach God's message. Do it willingly, even if it is not the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient."

Blunt, yet caring words.

As parents, we call it tough love, I think.
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Post by QueSi2Opie » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:04 pm

StL_Dan wrote:2 Timothy 3:16
"Everything in the Scriptures is God's Word. All of it (not some of it) is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live."


2 Timothy 4:1&2
"So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you to preach God's message. Do it willingly, even if it is not the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient."

Blunt, yet caring words.

As parents, we call it tough love, I think.


God spoke to me last night, he lifted my hand and now I write these words of Christ...

David Koresh 3:1
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Post by StL_Dan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:14 pm

QueSi2Opie wrote:
StL_Dan wrote:2 Timothy 3:16
"Everything in the Scriptures is God's Word. All of it (not some of it) is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live."


2 Timothy 4:1&2
"So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you to preach God's message. Do it willingly, even if it is not the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient."

Blunt, yet caring words.

As parents, we call it tough love, I think.


A good friend of mine brings up that guy all of the time.

The major difference between Koresh and Christ or any genuine Christian is the fruit of their lives.

Koresh abused innocent people's minds and took advantage of them for his own personal glory.

This type of behavior is a dead giveaway that one is not living for God......only for himself.
Last edited by StL_Dan on Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Good2Great » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:28 pm

Where were all these pro-religion voices when I needed em at kcforum.net?????
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Post by KCPowercat » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:47 pm

Good discussion guys...way to keep it clean...I feel good that I don't have to check this board every day even with sensitive topics like gay marriage being discussed.

Tat...we've probably sat next to each other at the cathedral....my wife is catholic (I'm lutheran but pretty much catholic now, just not officially)...what mass do you usually go to? We're usually there Sat. night...sometimes Sunday 10 or rarely sunday night.
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KCMO Should have...

Post by KCDevin » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:38 pm

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Agreed, Cactus. Actually, this has been the most civilized gay debate I've seen. No bashing or hate! It sure does speak well of the forum members, and KC residents in general!


I have kept my comments nice and somewhat calm, I learned my lesson at SSP, I should not have said much anyhow though...

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